OneGuyFromBarlick

It started with a cat fight in the Tory Party and it's ending with one. You are quite right Ian, Tiz and I said that right from the start, indeed I advocated it in 2008 to deal with the Credit Crunch.
Meanwhile the ship of state drifts towards the rocks.

Radio chatter is all about May quitting to get her deal through. Indicative votes tonight which may bring things to a head or she could still play the "bloody awkward woman" ploy and ignore any consensus. Should be fun to watch, not forgetting that it's tragic history unfolding before our very eyes.

In another part of the forest, sorting nomination details out today.

Its getting to the point where its almost impossible to make any sense out of what is going on in Parliament. The rightwing newspapers are still pumping out their versions of what should happen. Their approach is to limit the options to their own interpretations of events conveniently forgetting it was their attacks on Cameron that started that started the ball rolling in the first place. In spite of Cameron and George Osborne foisting austerity on the working class he had to promise a referendum or else he would be out. The referendum went against him so he was still out. Enter Mrs May under the same rules, austerity and some kind of deal. The austerity bit was easy but the deal was more difficult to organize. Not having one of her own she had to rely on what the EU had to offer. Every man and his dog were in unison in declaring this a nonstarter. Mrs May now tied to the mast listening to the Siren cries of the rightwingers to steer the ship onto the rocks has finally lost control of the compass and can only hope that something will come along to tug her away to a safe haven. Oliver Letwin now being cast as traitor villain for suggesting a way out. All this with nominally only a couple of days to go the Tories are still in complete disarray with only austerity holding fast. Time for a complete change.

Sir William Cash keeps asking questions which are so difficult to understand (for me at least, and I suspect for others too), that he seldom gets a reply. Keir Starmer skilfully pretended he understood it, and promised to write to him later. I think he is saying that the extension to 12th April is not lawful, and that the Brexit on Friday night still stands. As is routine - he got no sense from Mrs May, but he said he has written to her. They'd better get a move on - the clock is ticking.

plaques wrote: ↑27 Mar 2019, 09:27 All this with nominally only a couple of days to go the Tories are still in complete disarray...

Hmmm, they're not the only ones. I listened to Barry Gardiner on the radio this morning replying to a question by saying that if he had to choose between Revoking Article 50 and a no-deal Brexit it would be `a very difficult decision'. I'm not surprised that it caused a rumpus in the Labour Party and was jumped on by the media.

For those looking for ID to use at the upcoming local elections

There is also one in the Coop Car Park this coming Saturday 30th 10am-12noon

Well, TM has promised to go providing her deal is voted through. On the indicative votes, every one that went to to the ballot was voted down so another day wasted. It was pointed out by many that some of the issues voted on. Rescinding Article 50, Peoples Vote, polled nearly as many votes as TM's deal did at its last airing, so looked at that way are just as valid. Speaker has ruled that they can be heard again as they are not substantive motions so another go would not be out of order unlike the PM's deal.

I'm also confused. I thought that tomorrow's exit was both UK and EU law. Could Richard please give us five minutes of his time? We need an adult in our conversation!
Notice that May's statement about leaving is open ended. The Party says they will have a new leader by July but surely that depends on when she actually announces her resignation?
I heard a Tory MP railing against the process yesterday saying it was 'unconstitutional'. I have news for him, due to the fact that MPs don't like anyone having ultimate control (That gives them wriggle room), we have no constitution. By their own choice, MPs operate in the Wild West and yesterday's shambles is the result. As P said, we need a complete change and I suspect he was mainly thinking about a change of government. Could we please move fast and break things? Let's have a constitution, a different electoral system, a proper employment structure for members and a new chamber. All our present systems are unfit for purpose and this lot have proved it beyond a shadow of doubt.
Isn't it about time Brenda stepped in and said a few words?

PanBiker wrote: ↑27 Mar 2019, 23:29 On the indicative votes, every one that went to to the ballot was voted down so another day wasted.

.From the top of my head the day wasn't wasted. The indicative votes were allotted two days for discussion. Yesterday (Wednesday) and next Monday. Yesterday Bercow selected eight out of sixteen to give a broad coverage of the various options. The intention is to offer forward the top ranked ones for longer discussion on Monday. Although these are only advisory and are not legally binding Mrs May could find it very difficult to reject the winner outright.
Mrs May seems determined to bring her deal back for a third vote this Friday this is despite being told again by Bercow she can't bring it back without substantial changes.

How MPs voted Voted.
Confirmatory referendum - For: 268 Against: 295
Customs union - For: 264 Against: 272
Labour's Brexit plan - For: 237 Against: 307
Common Market 2.0 - For: 188 Against: 283
Revoking Article 50 to avoid no deal - For: 184 Against: 293
No-deal exit on 12 April - For: 160 Against: 400
Malthouse Plan B - For: 139 Against: 422
EFTA and EEA membership - For: 65 Against: 377.

As can be seen a second referendum is in #1 place with 'The Deal' coming #4
Somehow after the voting the Brexit Secretary, Stephen Barclay, claimed that the most important item was the 'Deal'. Well he would wouldn't he.
The whole discussions and questions after the voting appeared to be designed to add confusion and to belittle the object of the Indicative Votes.

Got my polling card today, actually morphed into a letter now rather than the card we are used to. Envelope as well so I reckon this Voter ID trial is costing a bob or two more than usual. It does give a list of all the acceptable documents for photographic voter ID on the back and the information on how to get an electors Voting ID card if you are bereft of the stuff on the list. Details also on how to get postal vote from t'internet or central control at Nelson Town Hall. Turnout and postal vote percentages will be very interesting this year.

Stanley wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 03:30 I'm also confused. I thought that tomorrow's exit was both UK and EU law.

Yes, but on 20 March, Theresa May wrote to Donald Tusk asking for an extension until 30 June. The next day, the PM and the EU27 agreed two options:
1. The first is a Brexit delay until 22 May but only on condition British MPs approve the withdrawal agreement before 29 March 2019.
2. If MPs reject it, the UK will have until 12 April to present EU leaders with a way forward or leave with no deal.
The Government still needs to amend the exit date in UK law, which it can do under the EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018 through the introduction of a regulation which would need to be approved in both Houses. This ought to be laid at least one day before it is debated. Further details here: LINK

Stanley wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 03:30 Isn't it about time Brenda stepped in and said a few words?

One is speechless. Even the corgis could do better than this.

Stanley wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 03:30 Isn't it about time Brenda stepped in and said a few words?

She could, but she won't.

We often read that one of the reasons for backing Mrs May's deal is that both parties agreed to honor the referendum and to go against it would be counter to the manifesto that people voted on.

Labour's manifesto has a few caveats to this argument.

Manefesto

Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first.

We will prioritise jobs and living standards, build a close new relationship with the EU, protect workers’ rights and environmental standards, provide certainty to EU nationals and give a meaningful role to Parliament throughout negotiations.

We will end Theresa May’s reckless approach to Brexit, and seek to unite the country around a Brexit deal that works for every community in Britain.

The Tories have avoided at all cost getting Parliament involved and only appear to be interested feeding the interests of the Party at the expense of the Country.

Still confusing isn't - I'm trying to keep up.

No sign of meaningful vote - ' for the third time of asking' - yet. They're working their day off tomorrow, debating something or other. The extension deal with the EU to May 22nd was conditional on Mrs May's 'deal' being passed by tomorrow the 29th March. This now looks unlikely so the extension reverts to April 12th.

However there is still some difference of opinion as to whether this is legal since the EU Withdrawal Act is the law of the land and says we leave tomorrow. This can be changed by a Statutary Instrument (SI) which needs to be passed both by the House of Commons and the House of Lords. No news yet of its progress.

There is also a challenge by Sir Bill Cash as to whether EU law can trump this Act. I suspect this has been put into the 'too difficult' tray.

I've got this sort of Schroedinger feeling that tomorrow at 11.00 pm London time we may not actually know if we are in the EU or out of it - or perhaps are both in and out at the same time. I treasure a solicitor's letter about another matter which explained that this was a possible situation.

Alternatively the whole process might have become locked into a Möbius loop.

April Fools Day has been cancelled next week as they don't think anyone can match the current shenanigans...

I found a smile even in this crazy situation. . . .

Arlene Arlene. . . .

All is saved, T May has a cunning plan.... Just vote on the divorce not the political arrangement.
Is this new under Bercow's test?
Do they really think Cunning Wheezes are the way to run the country?
Do they really believe they can get votes for what is, in effect, a blank cheque?
They are functioning in La La Land, no wonder Chambers of Commerce are pissed off at them.....

Enjoyed Tripps's post, satire is not dead yet.

Mrs May's half baked deal is just that, half a deal. Probably the thinking goes along the line...
Have we slipped the DUP a big enough bung to change their mind?
Now we have put the political issues into the land of promises will the middle rank Tories think this is good enough to turn the clock back on working directives and all those other bits of red tape rules that stop us getting back to the good old days?
Will the hard line Brexit Tories settle for a situation that could change again in a very short time?
Can we rely on the Tories embedded in the Labour Party to vote for us.?
Is the cloud of confusion great enough for MPs to believe that the extension would go on for ever if they don't vote for it?
Is the threat that Mrs May will not resign if the half deal doesn't go through a big enough deterrent?

Who knows... Watch this space.

On 29th March 2019 which should have been Independence Day

I'm listening to the final debate - but being politically unsophisticated, and perhaps a bit dim - I'm finding it difficult to work out what side some of the speakers in the debate are on.

They probably don't know, either!

DUP are having nowt to do with it so it's game over for what TM has put on the order sheet. In all normal committee procedure a member would simply rise and say "move business" and get on with the next agenda item. It's not normal though is it?

Ian Murray, Labour MP for Edinburgh South has just used the Monty Python "dead parrot" sketch as an analogy for TM's deal. Get in that man, excellent banter.

This is the day that personal ambition trumped any principles. Boris is now for, and Rees Mogg is away working out how to change sides with least personal damage. . The strategy is working - prolong it until the very very very last minute, then make the alternative seem worse.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the final vote was similar 52% to 48%.

Seems the fragrant Heidi is now (temporary acting unpaid) head of her new party 'Change UK.'

They want EU elections because under that voting system she may get in as an EU MEP .

Remember that the BNP similarly got Nick Griffin elected.

PS 2.43 pm The Noes have it the Noes have it

Of course that means her resignation falls - as it was contingent upon this 'deal' being passed.

PPS Jacob Rees Mogg squared it up with himself, and voted Aye.