ENERGY MATTERS

[Stanley]

Meter reading day for online billing yesterday. Instant report back from BG. Both leccy and gas accounts in credit. Good way to start the winter! (I have ten bags of coal in stock as well.....) Forecast seems to indicate we are now entering the heating season, good luck to all of you! I can't help worrying about the people who are less fortunate.....

[David Whipp]

Our miserly lifestyle in recent months (after whatever it takes heating last winter...) has led to a sizeable surplus on our account and a big cut to our direct debit.

Last week our (15 year old?) tumble drier bit the dust (maybe only the belt which went initially, but probably rather more after we'd taken it to bits to investigate...). I mentioned to Alison that this would probably halve our electric bill in not replaced...

[Stanley]

Get a clothes rack! Uses no juice at all and yes you're right, tumble driers are greedy!
CH cracked on at low level last night and is the same this morning. Cheaper than lighting the stove until it gets much colder. Both gas and Leccy in credit and gas direct debit down to less than £9 a month.....

[David Whipp]

Several clothes racks employed at our spot (tumble drier or not) and our outside lines are full in good weather.

(Love her as I do, I think Alison may be a little obsessive about washing; I'm quite happy with the same pair of shorts (commando) for a week and depending how much tea I spill down my tee-shirt, I could keep one of them on for a week as well...)

Moving on, I realised yesterday that we're sitting on a fortune on our street. Transco have been drilling for gas in earnest for the last couple of weeks - having sunk several exploratory wells over the last few years. One evening this week, we had four heavy vehicles engaged on the drilling and now have several wellheads along the length of the road. All the residents have been smelling gas for years - none of us thought to capture it and use it as a fuel source, fools that we are. Probably our street is now supplying the whole of Barlick with gas for the winter; fracking hell!

[Stanley]

Go and see the doctor David, You seem to have a bad case of punarrhoea!

[David Whipp]

Oh no! Could you smell it when we met yesterday, Stanley?

We gained another couple of well heads on the street yesterday; seeing as how the crews are virtually living on site, I offered them accommodation in our attic room. They politely declined, but I bet it was the punnarrhea that put them off.

[Stanley]

National Grid reports that the chance of power outages is higher this winter than any time in the last six years. Tory energy minister says it won't happen. So that's all right then.
Have you seen the terms on offer to Chinese contractors for the next nuclear power station? They are guaranteed twice the current price for twenty years....

[hartley353]

Prior to the privatisation of our Electricity services, their was talk of brown outs, and black outs. It is now 25 years on and folks are still worrying about it, yet not one person is making any attempt to cut their useage.

[Tripps]

"yet not one person is making any attempt to cut their useage (sic) ." Really? - I am.

Evan Davis invented an Old Chinese Saying this morning - "he who controls the power station can switch the lights off"

[Tardis]

I have tried to save energy, short of not using it anymore I think I'm at my most efficient

Now have to wait and see if British gas push a force majeure through on my fixed energy tariff

[Pluggy]

Natural gas from the ground has no smell, the gas companies add the smell just so it can be easily detected. Bottled LPG is the same.

I have cut my use of energy as well. Electricity use keeps on going up because people are getting more stuff that is powered by it. Back in the early days of the grid the average household had 4 or 5 electrical appliances, I have more than that on my desk. At the moment with the sun shining, I'm using a lot less than I'm generating. Some of you are probably burning electric that came off my roof.

If they are tearing down old power plants faster than they are building new, it stands to reason they are going to run into supply problems sooner or later.

[David Whipp]

The drilling crews on our street say they've finished sinking wells... after a good three weeks. I'm tempted to start a book on whether they'll be back before Christmas, or event bonfire night?

[Tizer]

Some of you are probably burning electric that came off my roof.

. Oh, is that why every time I switch my computer on I get this damn Barlick web site popping up?

[Stanley]

I've banged on about energy in the Politics topic so I'll not bore you again.
David, If Hartley says nobody is economising it must be true....

[Tizer]

A friend of mine, Colin, here in Somerset has had a visit from a man who describes himself as a broker based in Taunton and whose business card shows the company name `Easy Eco Ltd'. This company name shows up on google with the following web site: http://easyecoltd.co.uk/
The man says that the PV cells would be fitted by `Eco Green Energy Solutions Ltd', based in Swindon: http://www.egesolutionsltd.co.uk/

Coli has some engineering background and is cautious by nature so he contacted me to get a further opinion. I think it's a bit dodgy and I suggested he talks to other companies. The `broker' says Colin could have 4kW of cells fitted for £7000 which may be OK but it was some of the detail that bothered me. He said that the cells were a new type which would still make electricity at night and that puzzled Colin as much as it puzzled me! He also advised Colin to buy a battery so that he could store the electricity and this would cost an extra £3000. Perhaps the claim about activity at night is really that he means if you have a battery then you could use power from that. But I've not heard of many people using a battery with PV - the cost of replacing it in the future would seriously impact on the economics, I should think.

I also warned Colin about going through a broker because he would have to be very careful about the contract - who was responsible for what etc. He needs a reliable PV installer for a comparable quote, a discussion and to explain to him how the tariff and power company link-up work? Can anyone recommend a good, trustworthy PV installer company with national coverage?

[Whyperion]

not one person is making any attempt to cut their useage.

I think I am more worried by corporate consumption , ( and for cost the bringing back of Standing Charges is going to mean less finanical % saving for using less KWh for many families). I note that many motorways that have lamp standards that are switched off (midnight to 5 or 7 am) , but the tube in london some time ago went for more electric screen adverts and illuminated ones in passenger walkways , both examples of ridiculous un needed usage. I guess that some savings from switching to more electric efficient lights etc can offset the additional usage.

[Whyperion]

The Scottish Nationalists have correctly identified part of the price increases in power charges as being from Govt 'taxation' or compulsory requirements to fund alternative energy requirments , nuclear de-commissioning and low earner / OAP subsidies. Govts ( Lab and Con ) have been quite happy for this to be the case - in part as the principle that the 'user pays' is a fair economic one , and that it has allowed either lower general taxation rates or less need for govt borrowing . The fact that the demand on most households is pretty much the same either way and wont be a great overall financial saving.

[Tripps]

Lots to consider there Tizer. I got a couple of quotes at the height of the frenzy in Sep 2011, from a company called Spirit Solar, in Reading. Remember the feed in Tariff was 43.3 pence per unit then. They quoted - for 8 x 250 W panels = 4 kW, either Sanyo panels for £19340 or for Suntech panels £16340. They sounded professional and the quote was well put together, but who knows?

I decided against it for various reasons. Firstly too expensive, followed by warranty concerns - how long would they be around for any problems. The aesthetics of having panels at all on the roof. etc etc.....

Then in December 2011 when the tariff was reduced to 21 pence per unit - they said they would do the same job for £11,000. I told them that of they had not been greedy, and quoted that at first, they might have got the job.

The addition of a so called broker would be a big negative for me.

I think Plugs paid about £6k, and he seems happy. Approach with great caution I'd say.

[Pluggy]

Standing charges never went away to make a comeback. Most of the energy providers have tariffs with and without standing charges, they pretty much always have, although some have removed the option recently. If you're a low user you're probably better off on a no standing charge tariff, if you're normal or high you're probably better off with a standing charge and lower per unit charges. I've always paid a standing charge.

I suspect those paying for the adverts on London tube stations (The companies that are advertising ultimately ) would argue that illuminating the signs is not "ridiculous un needed usage" . The whole point of advertising is that as many people as possible see them and if putting a light behind them increases their profile, its money well spent. ( I take it you've never worked for yourself ? ) Lights on motorways is a saving because nobody loses money if they are turned off in the wee hours. (It might cause an extra death or two, but its not directly money out of those who are paying the bills pockets)

[Pluggy]

Lots to consider there Tizer. I got a couple of quotes at the height of the frenzy in Sep 2011, from a company called Spirit Solar, in Reading. Remember the feed in Tariff was 43.3 pence per unit then. They quoted - for 8 x 250 W panels = 4 kW, either Sanyo panels for £19340 or for Suntech panels £16340. They sounded professional and the quote was well put together, but who knows?

I decided against it for various reasons. Firstly too expensive, followed by warranty concerns - how long would they be around for any problems. The aesthetics of having panels at all on the roof. etc etc.....

Then in December 2011 when the tariff was reduced to 21 pence per unit - they said they would do the same job for £11,000. I told them that of they had not been greedy, and quoted that at first, they might have got the job.

The addition of a so called broker would be a big negative for me.

I think Plugs paid about £6k, and he seems happy. Approach with great caution I'd say.

Plugs Paid £6800 for a 2.5 kWp system (Sunny Boy Inverter with 10 Hyundai Panels). Best investment I ever made. The economics have changed dramatically since I got in though. The costs have come down a lot, but the FIT is a third of what it was. I'd think long and hard about it with things the way they are now. The cost of panels which is much of the cost of the system has slumped since most of the Western Governments have cut their FITs. The panels were over £1.50 per watt when I bought mine, They are little more than 50p per watt now. The company probably wasn't being greedy, its just the stuff was an awful lot cheaper when the FIT dropped.

There was no broker involved, I got them from an electrical firm in Skipton who had been around a long time before Solar Panels came along and are still here now.

http://www.rnbelectrical.co.uk/division.php

My mate paid less for a 4kWp (£5995 I think) system than I paid for mine but he's on the 21p FIT. Its about 14p now. Is income is about the same as mine because his roof is better orientated and has less shading Issues. He's very happy with his.

The costs will vary by property, if you have panels pointing different ways (on 2 or 3 sides of a 4 sided roof for example) it gets more expensive than my simple system.

[Stanley]

That last post had the ring of coming straight from the horse's mouth.

[David Whipp]

On the tube ads...

I assume these are LEDs?

These use awesomely little energy.

I'm just in the throes of sorting out the Christmas lights, so please forgive me for this...

We used to have shop front trees in Barlick festooned with incandescent lamps. A few years ago, we decided to change over to LEDs as part of a refurbishment of the supplies and brackets (and expansion onto new blocks of shops).

The new lights use just .4 watt per strand. We can now light a whole block of shops for less energy use than less than half a strand of the old lamps.

(PS We begin dressing the Christmas trees next week...)

[hartley353]

The LED was first discovered by Oleg Losev a Russian Radio Mechanic. In our University library were copies of the Electrician Magazine from the early 1900's. Oleg had many articles published by them, many of us believe him to be the father of the transistor. Not the Nobel winning guys from Bell . Also attributed to him were solid state amplifiers, oscillators, and the superhetrodyne radio receiver. Oleg died in the siege of Leningrad in 1942 an unsung hero and others claimed his work.

[Tizer]

Thanks for the help, Pluggy and Tripps. I've not done anything about PV panels, partly because we haven't got much suitable roof space (dormer takes a lot of space and shades much of the rest) and partly due to concerns about the economics and the rapidly improving technology which could make present panels obsolescent sooner than expected. The salesman told my friend Colin that "It's time to get in now because the tariff you'll receive is on the way down" - what he didn't tell him was that it's already gone most of the way down!

[David Whipp]

There's a reference to anaerobic digesters on We Are What We Eat.

They appear to be a good source of renewable energy.

I've been trying to interest local industrial businesses in the technology. Located next to farmland, ADs could be fed by farm waste or whole crop silage. Electricity generated could be used in the first instance for powering the factory and the 'waste' heat from generation used for space heating.

The slurry store like structures would be in keeping with industrial settings. (And, to my eye, less intrusive than a proliferation of wind turbines.)

ADs look to be far more efficient than wind and very cost effective.

The farm based AD in Ribble Valley has got the green light; I'm looking forward to see how it performs and what the pitfalls are.