OneGuyFromBarlick

I have no idea how it will end. I am a passenger in a speeding train and the crew are fighting on the footplate.
From now on the terms Great Britain and United Kingdom are redundant.
(in 1919 when the government was frightened of revolution they put tanks and troops into Glasgow. There's a worrying thought for you.)

Stanley wrote: ↑02 Sep 2019, 03:34
From now on the terms Great Britain and United Kingdom are redundant.

A bit of black humour:

Thanks for the funny cartoon, China. Yes, it could be a test of stupidity. We could drop out and refuse to pay the money we are committed to (actually now £33 billion) but it's predicted that the reputational damage from that would severely damage our chances of negotiating trade deals in the future (other countries wouldn't trust us to keep to the agreements). So not paying what we've promised could be a very stupid decision.
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After 3 years of watching the antics of our two main political parties over Brexit I've come to the conclusion that we'd be better off being governed by the EU! Barnier's lot have much more sense than our present lot of politicians. I now see that our Government, and more specifically Michael Gove, is going to spend about £100 million on a no-deal Brexit advertisement campaign. Really it's £100 million pounds spent to brainwash us into thinking that Brexit is a good idea. Just think what else we could have done with all that money.

BBC Reports that Johnson hints there may be a deal to be done sometime just after Oct 17th, but only if parliament does not rule out no deal. (what kind of deal, what does he think can change- is he delusioned, a liar, or a genius). I am not convinced that the EU would in any way be persuaded to add or remove any clause simply because it is said there has to be a deal. In some ways , economically in trade, no - deal might be no bad thing in the short term. What is unclear to me is what protections the EU had in place for trading in member states, which protected trade freedoms in those member states ( ie the UK) might well pass away, leaving more Westminster red tape and restrictions in the domestic economy - which could depress wages/ longer working hours , erorsion of holiday pay and minimum wages and similar just as examples.

All this talk of a deal is a myth to give the impression that our plucky PM fought to the end to avoid No Deal. He has produced nothing new and Barnier has told us yet again that negotiations are over unless we come up with something new, we haven't. They are dead set on No Deal, the rabid extremists have won that Tory cat fight.
I agree with you Tiz about the stupidity of not paying our dues. Our reputation is in bad enough shape already without completely trashing it by reneging on what we owe.
The pantomime continues today.
By the way. There is a new R4 programme investigating what the world thinks of us and yesterday they were asking inhabitants of Singapore. A Singaporean diplomat was asked what the opinion was about Brexit and he said that they couldn't understand why we would discard the obvious economic benefits of staying in the EU.

Stanley wrote: ↑03 Sep 2019, 03:02 By the way. There is a new R4 programme investigating what the world thinks of us and yesterday they were asking inhabitants of Singapore. A Singaporean diplomat was asked what the opinion was about Brexit and he said that they couldn't understand why we would discard the obvious economic benefits of staying in the EU.

That's what many overseas politicians say. I'm sorry to keep repeating myself (or maybe not sorry), but the obvious solution to our problem is to cancel Brexit. It seems a long time ago now but Matthew Parris made the point that if you get close to the point of no return but still can't see how to get to the original objective then the best course is always to stay with the status quo. I read an article this morning which began by saying we have to choose between three options: Brexit with a deal; Brexit with no deal; cancel Brexit. It discussed the first two but ended without a further mention of the third option. We've been blinded by all the argument over deal versus no deal. I was saying three years ago that we should revoke Article 50 and stay in the EU but every time I mentioned it people said `My god, we can't do that, there'll be far too much trouble from the populist public'. But look what we've gone through so far and still have to face! Our representatives in Parliament should do what is in the best interest of the nation and that is to cancel Brexit. Come on Parliament, `Take Back Control'!

Parliament channel will be interesting this afternoon.

I'll be there. . .

I'm trying to think of an analogy that describes Brexit. The most charitable I came up with is that it's like have a longstanding niggling toothache, then finally going to the Dentist. There you rashly allow the trainee do the job,who proves to be a bit less competent than you'd want, and the extraction is quite unpleasant.

However after a few weeks you wonder what all the fuss was about.

It'll be reet. . .

The request for an emergency debate isn't until 18.30 today. We have to put up with Boris until then. Just watching Jeremy's speech in Salford from yesterday.

Looks like the 'remainers' have won. 328 to 301.

With just very slight rounding that's 52% to 48%.

I've seen those numbers somewhere before.

Looks like Boris is due to table a motion under the fixed parliament act tomorrow to trigger a general election. Response by the opposition and supporters tonight was to reject until no deal has been ruled out by exiting with a deal. In other words, stew in your own juice.

Should add that another of his MP's walked over to the other side of the house this afternoon and took up residence on the opposition benches. Boris has no majority at all now so can hardly call the shots.

PanBiker wrote: ↑03 Sep 2019, 21:53 another of his MP's walked over to the other side of the house this afternoon

Rare to see someone tergiversate live on TV.

Did you hear Anna Soubry say - words to the effect ' I won't be spoken to like that - especially by a man'. Can you imagine the fuss if a man said that about a woman.

PS Interesting to remember that this is only Mr Johnson's second sitting day in the House since his election as leader. It's his first PMQ's tomorrow. Send for more popcorn.

Yes, I heard the remark by Anna Soubry.

Have to wait in for a parcel tomorrow so might just as well watch a bit more of "The House of Fun"

The ship of state sails into uncharted waters and there is a storm brewing. Captain Johnson is at the helm but his hands are tied and he is feeling a bit poorly. Never mind, he's set at least one record, the shortest tenure in recorded history.
Will all his SPADS be getting their notice?
Two thoughts slightly later in the morning.... Will Trump be revising his opinion about Johnson as a "very good prime minister"? Expect a tweet from him any time now...
What we saw yesterday in the House was long overdue. MPs of all parties combining to attempt to right a wrong in the interests of the country instead of concentrating on self and party interests. The most hopeful sign I have seen so far in this affair that Parliamentary Democracy is still alive and well.
I noticed yesterday the arrogant way Rees Mogg was reclining on his bench in Parliament and was pleased to hear this morning that Jo Swinburn took him to task for it. The expression on his face and his attitude denoted contempt.
Who was the MP who shouted "You've got off to a good start Boris" (or something like that) I was hoping it was Dennis Skinner but nobody seems to know.

It seems they have withdrawn the parliamentary whip from forty of the "rebel" Tories. In my book that adds up to Boris having a deficit majority of the same forty, in which case he is stuffed. His and Rees Mogg's faces said it all last night. My admiration for the put downs from John Bercow grow every time I watch the proceedings even though his genus was from the opposition benches so to speak.

Today will be more bumbling bluster from Boris as he argues for an election, he needs 2/3rd of the house. Forty sacked MP's no longer under the whip what are his chances? The response from the opposition benches last night when he announced was certainly not encouraging for him, I though he was going to throw up! It's a joy to watch.

I noticed yesterday that Dennis was now using a stick.

Stanley wrote: ↑04 Sep 2019, 01:41 I noticed yesterday the arrogant way Rees Mogg was reclining on his bench in Parliament and was pleased to hear this morning that Jo Swinburn took him to task for it. The expression on his face and his attitude denoted contempt.

I think you'll find it was leader of the Greens, Caroline Lucas. Quick, someone send for Nanny! The Mogg

Rory Stewart received news he'd got the sack just as he was receiving an award for best politician of the year!

It was depressing to hear former Conservative Party leader Michael Howard on Today this morning accusing the majority of MPs in the current House of Commons of being arrogant and `thinking they know better than the British people'. Surely he knows how a representative democracy works? We send the MPs there as our representatives to find out what is best for the nation and to put it into action. Otherwise we might as well abolish Parliament, leave the admin to the Civil Service, and use the current online Petitions template to do online Referendums on any topic that needs a decision. We'd soon find that hanging was back, occupational health & safety would disappear, all traffic speed limits would be lost, laws on drink-driving and seat belts would go, and so on.

PanBiker wrote: ↑03 Sep 2019, 22:27 Yes, I heard the remark by Anna Soubry.

I've just looked on Hansard to get the exact words, but- they don't mention it.

Might be me not finding it, but I thought it was supposed to be a verbatim report?

I overestimated the number of Tories who voted for the proposal last night. It was actually 21 not 40 as stated. No matter, Boris is still stuffed.

Here they are:

Guto Bebb (Aberconwy)
Richard Benyon (Newbury)
Steve Brine (Winchester)
Alistair Burt (North East Bedfordshire)
Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells)
Kenneth Clarke (Rushcliffe)
David Gauke (South West Hertfordshire)
Justine Greening (Putney)
Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield)
Sam Gyimah (East Surrey)
Philip Hammond (Runnymede and Weybridge)
Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon)
Richard Harrington (Watford)
Margot James (Stourbridge)
Oliver Letwin (West Dorset)
Anne Milton (Guildford)
Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North)
Antoinette Sandbach (Eddisbury)
Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex)
Rory Stewart (Penrith and The Border)
Edward Vaizey (Wantage)

They are all gathering for the feeding frenzy of PM's QT, bring it on.

It's late - and The House of Lords are doing a bit of a filibuster. . .

The 'contents' go to the right 'by the throne' , and the 'malcontents' 'go to the left by the bar'.

It looks a bit late for most of them bless them - I expect they'll bring the cocoa round soon.

Not all bad though - if they stay past midnight I guess they''l get two lots of attendance allowance - at £300+ per day - that should soften the blow.

You're right Tiz, Caroline Lucas and not Jo Swinburn.
Nice to hear Dominic Cummings denounced in the House.
All going to plan for the Opposition at the moment but let's wait and see.....
Sajid Javez once more announces the end of Austerity as he throws money at the economy with wild abandon. At one point John Bercow told him to sit down and stop making political points in what should have been a statement. I agree with Ian, the Speaker is doing well by the House and us.
The latest trade figures are coming and it may be that the economic miracle and the election budget are thrown off course as it is possible we are into recession.
Thought for the day... I look back with nostalgia to times when a PM in Johnson's position did the honourable thing and resigned. It seems to be out of fashion.
Later... News that the filibuster in the Lords petered out after it became apparent that all the amendments were failing by an average of 3 to i against and it became increasingly obvious that this was futile and making a mockery of the House. The Bill will return to the Commons in time for ratification. Johnson loses again as another cunning wheeze blows up in his face.
The increasingly hysterical tone in both Johnson's attacks and the editorials in the right wing papers accusing JC of being frightened of an election show how worried the Tories are. They know fine what the opposition coalition's strategy is and recognise that it is working. It just so happens that the Marxist Corbyn is the easiest target. (The word Marxist was used in the House again to describe him.)
I forecast that the 'Boris Bubble' would be short-lived and so it has turned out. He is effectively a prisoner of his own cunning wheezes, the gamble has failed. Or has it?
Sorry to go on but I have remembered something I picked up yesterday. Much has been made by Johnson about progress on a new deal with the EU and him having a mandate to negotiate when he goes to the EU minister's meeting on October 17th. Michel Barnier made it clear that this was nonsense as the ministers have no power to negotiate, all they can do is accept any new proposals and take them back to their national government for a decision there. Johnson knows this and once again is bending the truth.
A new theory is circulating, that these losses are all part of the plan and that all along Number Ten has been aiming to trigger an early election which he still believes that he can win on the grounds that he is a strong leader who has been hamstrung by the other parties. (This has been reinforced by the government's surrender in the Lords early this morning.) This is not outside the bounds of possibility and I have little doubt that this ploy is being discussed by the Opposition Coalition.

Reading the papers in France, they have said they will listen to any alternative solution given by us and thats it. Other than that we don’t particularly make the news. I don’t really think they are that interested in us and our internal politics. Its a case of life goes on as they quietly prepare for our exit deal or no deal as Noel Edmonds would say.

That's been their attitude ever since we applied to leave Sue and very sensible. They set out their red lines, published them and have stuck to them ever since. Contrast that with what we have done. I know which way I'd like to be governed that's why I voted to remain. Unfortunately as we have seen the Tory Party, who have all along regarded this as their preserve, have not behaved as consistently. The sooner it is all settled the better as long as we don't simply crash out which is obviously stupid and I'm sure you would agree with that.

I see our MP Andrew Stephenson voted to keep his job. Ie: voted in favour of following Johnson's no deal strategy. Jo Swinson summed it up reasonably accurately with "If he is seriously saying the extent of his plan was to try to bully the EU and only get a good deal by threatening [to] leave without a deal... it is not very well thought through." His next bullying act was to threaten a general election, remember this is from the party that made 5 year terms the default position to stop governments of the day exploiting a manufactured favoured position like spending sprees before a crash all came to an end when the Commons backed his negotiating genius and told him to get on with it. The EU could of course refuse an extension but their track record of appearing to be helpful is against this.
Johnson's sacking of 21 of the most well known Conservative MPs will continue to make waves in the Tory party. You will notice that the rightwing press has been quiet in comparing it with The National Socialist German Workers' Party, commonly referred to in English as the Nazi, whereas if Corbyn did the same thing it would be wall to wall communism. Marxism, Stalinism and virtually every other 'ism' you could name.

Johnson is scheduled to address the Nation some time today I believe. He may be about to force a GE against yesterdays vote in parliament.

We've been listening to Neil MacGregor's latest series of `As Others See Us' Radio 4 programmes (5 episodes, one a day this week). As in the previous series, the response from people in the other countries is disappointment that the UK has embarked on a foolish venture and we are throwing away the best deal we could have - membership of the EU.

A General Election is heading our way. Both main parties are seriously divided and their leaders are disliked by many of the `party faithful'. A wish to Remain or Leave will influence voting. A wish for deal or no-deal divides leavers. For many, like me, Johnson and Corbyn are a deterrent. Jo Swinson seems to be a much better option. Perhaps all this will result in a wider spread of voting and we'll end up with a coalition government again? On the other hand the dreaded party loyalty factor among voters may come into play. What I so dislike about party politics is that so many people will continue to give blind support to the same old party even when it's ruined by extremists.