OneGuyFromBarlick

Stanley wrote: ↑18 Sep 2019, 02:17 They should act fearlessly.....

I'm watching this show. Reminds me of the Leveson Enquiry. It's hypnotic - somniferous almost. I find it impossible to follow the detail of the arguments. Hopefully someone will summarise it for me later.

How can a person absorb all of the evidence? I can't.

PS. Lord Wilson has just intervened with a killer question that (as I I understand it) -

"Why is there no (sworn) witness statement from the Government to say 'This is the reason we have prorogued Parliament'. Just a lot of associated background documents? "

Good man. . . .

Most people are familiar with the fantasy stories like Gulliver's Travels, Alice in Wonderland, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and lately The Game of Thrones, These are now to be joined by another fantasy thriller / satire 'Boris and the EU Dragon. The main plot centres round the negotiations with the EU on Brexit. I can't go into detail about the negotiations since he is keeping it secret from his own MPs ,the House of Commons and anyone else remotely affected by Brexit on the grounds that it would weaken his position, in fact he has claimed that the law the Commons passed to ensure that he negotiates a deal because it is taking up valuable negotiating time looking for loopholes to strengthen his 'no deal' position that he would otherwise spend not negotiating. His latest cunning plan is in refusing to tell the EU what it is because ... correct, it would weaken his position. Complicated I know but what else do you expect when the Government of the day is being taken to court for minimising the time available to discuss it on the spurious grounds that the time is required to formulate the queen's speech something that has been on the cards for at least two years.

I thought that as well about the missing witness statement David. It's 'obvious' to us what is going on and to the judges as well but they have to measure it against standard judgements and precedent. I hope they push the boat out!
P, dead right, the only change I would suggest is that it is a Greek Tragedy.
More interesting evidence yesterday in PE about the powers available to the government under existing legislation which are quite draconian. These are the ones that include putting the military in the Town Councils. See THIS Wikipedia article on the Civil Contingencies Act 2004.

Boris might just pull off a dealed exit. There have been some ideas written down but not official, mostly relating to things like plant (as in Garden) movements and checking NI to EIRE and thence (?) EU, and a few other things that apparently had been sticking points. But really? did this need an extension to work out what should have been fundamentals of agreed things that can flow without checking as the internal checks are considered sufficient and presumbably the amount of local content in manufactured goods for tariff neutral or agreed values. Yes, if not a customs union member it is a paperwork heavy (and argueably the extra costs exceed savings from not being an EU member - but we never told the EU what we wanted changed, nor really, told the EU what we would keep if we left). So possibilities that a deal is around when parliament resumes ( and again, what could parliament have additionally achieved without being suspended - but should such suspension be by vote - parliament to be supreme, not monarch's involvment.

Cameron's book arrived yesterday. It's BIG, 730 pages and the word is the editors made him cut 100,000 words out. I shall report.....

The Labour Party conference starts today with a controversy. See THIS BBC report on the surprise bid to abolish the post of Deputy Leader in order to get rid of Tom Watson who has been making himself a thorn in Jeremy Corbyn's side. The general opinion seems to be that he will be ousted today but I have no idea what difference this will make. More evidence of how split the Labour Party is.
Some sources are saying that this might backfire and become a move to oust Corbyn.
I see no evidence in the right wing media of the current move to force the Tories to investigate anti-Islamic behaviour in the Party. See THIS BBC report on the matter. I heard Kwasi Kwarteng on Today yesterday making a ham fisted attempt to suggest that the investigation was ongoing but a party spokesperson later said that it hadn't, it is still being 'looked at'. If this concerned the Labour Party it would be all over the right wing press.
Meanwhile, Barclay goes to meet the EU spends 'two hours' talking to them. He came out gushing about 'progress' but the EU account of the meeting was less enthusiastic saying that nothing of substance had been discussed. We are still in the dark but I still think that Johnson will not be disappointed if we end up with No Deal. Nothing his administration is doing seems to be making progress and in case you hadn't noticed, time is getting very short!

As you all know, Corbyn short-circuited the Watson affair yesterday but in effect he has only kicked the can down the road. Lots of lame talk about Labour being a 'broad church' and democratic diversity was part of the Party's tradition but I don't buy it. All right there is a place for debate but at the moment what is needed right or wrong is solidarity, loyalty and some discipline, there are times when the most important thing is a united front. We don't have that at the moment. There is general agreement that Tom Watson is dragging his feet in that department and I think they are right, the bottom line is that he is angling for the Leadership. Personal ambition could be getting in the way of progress. I tend to think that the boil should be lanced somehow.

What a state of affairs when all the political news is talk about things that have never happened.
Johnson with negotiations he is not negotiating, a Brexit deal that will never see the light of day.
Corbyn not doing away with the deputy leader position and not sacking Watson. Not having a referendum before an election and not detailing the deal he hopes to get before he gets it.
What's this world coming to? Lets get back to the promises we know will never happen then we will know where we are.

I've been lucky enough to spend the last 8 days in the beautiful Isle of Purbeck with glorious weather, fantastic scenery and lots to do. Now I'm back but it seems like politics has been on hold for those 8 days, nothing seems different. We are going to leave the EU with a deal, leave without a deal, or remain; whichever way it goes there's going to be a lot of trouble ahead. In the long term, remain will be the best result by far but in the short term even that will bring much unrest. There's no easy way out and as far as our global image is concerned we've already made fools of ourselves. There'll be rich pickings for the vultures, those so-called `masters of the universe'!

Dead right Tiz. I'm glad you had a good break....
Latest rumour is that Corbyn is being plotted against and is thinking of packing it in. When was there ever a Parliament without some backbencher polishing the Field Marshall's baton in his knapsack?
Conference is not over yet, they could vote to adopt stance of Remain. Much as I want that I think it's the wrong tack at the moment. Far better to fight an election Corbyn's way on a proper progressive manifesto.
Besides, just think of what the winner of an election will face if Brexit turns out to be as bad as we all expect.....
Meanwhile, in another part of the forest... See THIS NY Times report on the latest revelations in the Trump Ukraine call. Trump has admitted that he asked for a investigation in Ukraine into the Biden connection. Many representatives believe this is an impeachable offence and one more pressure builds on Teflon Donald. Other elements point to the fact that this is just what the democrats needed in the run up to the next Presidential election. Take your pick.
Later... Not many smiles to be found in politics at the moment but I had to smile when I heard a very articulate union man (Unison I think) answer a question which expressed incredulity about closing private schools and incorporating them in a general education service. His Reply? "They said that about the NHS but that worked out all right...".

Reading the rightwing media you would think that the Labour party conference was just a gathering where a gang of people sat down and said " right lads what are we going to talk about next"? All the headlines are simple mischief making speculation. Are you going to pack it all in? bring back clause IV? sack Watson? deselect Blair's MPs? Stay in the EU or leave? come on man spit it out! Corbyn's answer to the last question couldn't be much clearer, " First lets have a general election, should we win we will try to negotiate a deal, at this point we will explain it to the public and have a referendum". Somehow this logic seems to cause complete confusion and is seen as prevarication.If there are Labour MPs who are so blinkered or can't understand the logic perhaps its time to deselect them.

Stanley wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 01:52 Later... Not many smiles to be found in politics at the moment but I had to smile when I heard a very articulate union man (Unison I think) answer a question which expressed incredulity about closing private schools and incorporating them in a general education service. His Reply? "They said that about the NHS but that worked out all right...".

The union man is comparing apples with pears. Having an NHS hasn't meant the end of private medical treatment for those who wish it. The way ahead is not to close independent schools which are generally better than state schools. That's just ideology triumphing over logic. Instead the government should raise state schooling to a level even better than the independents. Then let the public choose which ones they want to send their kids to!

Tizer wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 11:34 That's just ideology triumphing over logic.

Conversely, Gladstone made a comment that only the wealthy required a good education. For the rest of the population nature would throw up a couple a geniuses per generation which we can use, the remainder only required what was necessary to do their job. I think we can now see that if a country falls back on education then it will fall back on everything else.

In the early 1990s John Smith had the right idea - he wanted to make Britain the best educated country. Simple as that.

I wrote a long thoughtful piece on the voting system at the Labour PartyConference yesterday. When I tried to upload - I got an error message SQL . . etc. Since I hadn't saved it I lost it. Can't be bothered to do it again. The moment has gone.

Looks like something similar has happened again this afternoon. I think the show of hands votes are being manipulated. Labour supporters will of course say I'm wrong.

Tripps wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 17:47 I wrote a long thoughtful piece on the voting system at the Labour PartyConference yesterday. When I tried to upload - I got an error message SQL . . etc. Since I hadn't saved it I lost it. Can't be bothered to do it again. The moment has gone.

If writing a 'long piece' it's always worth considering typing it up in a text editor and then copying and pasting it to the site

That's what I often do Kev - but this was written hastily, and I paid the price.

Just seen today's shenanigans at the Conference. The vote by show of hands, went one way - said the chair. Jenny Formby had a quiet word, and the result was immediately reversed.

Judgment day tomorrow - either way will be interesting.

Annoying when that happens David isn't it.
I missed the action yesterday, I was busy with other things.
The more I think about it the more I want the Tories to stay in government as long as possible. I say this because I believe that it is going to be worse than anyone suspects and they should be left to take the flak. Politicians tend to think in terms of power and control. What is coming will leave the government helpless and with no control. Why should anyone want to be in that position.
It doesn't matter for the Brexiteers, they are sitting pretty for as long as it takes, most of them stand to profit personally from the chaos and I believe that's what they wanted all along.
I watch and wait.

Stanley wrote: ↑24 Sep 2019, 02:16 The more I think about it the more I want the Tories to stay in government as long as possible. I say this because I believe that it is going to be worse than anyone suspects and they should be left to take the flak.

This approach is like turkeys voting for Christmas. I think we all know that it takes up to five years before the full effects of a policy kicks in. Meanwhile the Prime Ministership could change hands several times and people have very short memories, who remembers what Mrs May actually did other than fail? Those with forked tongues will find excuses to blame others and meanwhile there are 'events dear boy'. Boils are better lanced than allowed to grow into carbuncles. It is my view that that many of the people who voted Brexit did so because they had been neglected and simple said "sod it, its your turn now", Human nature I suppose.

Stanley wrote: ↑24 Sep 2019, 02:16 Annoying when that happens David isn't it

That's not the word I'd use. Interesting, revealing, off putting, shambolic, corrupt, would all be on my list before annoying.

They say there is a walk out planned when Tom Watson stands up to speak today. Do they still all call each other comrades?

Lady Hale

The decision to prorogue parliament is unlawful void and of no effect.
Wow. . . .

Surely Boris should resign immediately.

PS: did you see the giant diamond spider brooch she was wearing - I'm sure there was a message there.

Get in. It gets interesting now.

Its evident this country and even all the political parties are split down the middle.Where to from here. If Boris resigns who next. The distrust in all parties and politicians has never been higher. If there is a general election, whoever gets in will still have to face the Brexit crisis and whatever happens there will have to be faced head on by the party in charge of the process. I don’t think there will be another referendum but it could clarify what the country think now we have the facts and pave the way for a clearer end to the problem

Indeed, another referendum is very much on the cards. The Labour Party position could not be clearer despite the media attempt to cloud the water and claim disarray at all times.

Try to negotiate another deal.

Put any such deal to the country in another referendum with an option to remain.

Feeding frenzy by the media of course, gob smacked at the decision by the Supreme Court. I honestly can't see why, it seemed patently obvious to me that he had acted illegally and I have never had a doubt that the Court would re-affirm it's position and rule that he was acting outside of the law.