OneGuyFromBarlick

We have our polling cards at our current address but will have moved house before the election. Do I need to re register with the new address?

Here is the relative extract from the Electoral Commission website:

"What if I am moving house?

When you move house you need to re-register at your new address. If your move date is between the registration deadline and polling day, you will still be able to vote at your old address. If you are unable to return, you can apply to vote by post and have your postal vote sent to your new address, or you can apply to vote by proxy."

The deadline to register to vote for the general election is 26 November.

Electoral Commission - 10 most asked questions

I can give you a postal vote application if you wish Kev.

The deadline for receipt of Postal Vote applications is 5pm also on 26th November.

PanBiker wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 18:17 The deadline to register to vote for the general election is 26 November.

All should be good then, I'll register at the new address on Friday. Thanks Ian.

I watched about 15 minutes of the ITV face to face. Very artificial format and the presenter had no control over the candidates beyond their good manners. Corbyn was OK but Johnson repeatedly ignored being asked to stop or stick to the question. I think Corbyn was telling the truth as he sees it and didn't duck anything. Johnson's responses were the usual flim flam and confusion with some really big porkies thrown in for good measure.
Basically Johnson wanted to talk about Brexit and how disastrous Labour is instead of answering direct and embarrassing questions. Corbyn concentrated on the other matters of wider importance and kept talking about the Tories to a minimum. Overall, Johnson said nothing to change my opinion.
Who would I buy a used car of? Corbyn, definitely not Johnson!
Later... See THIS for a BBC report about a Tory cunning wheeze. Open and transparent?

Tripps wrote: ↑18 Nov 2019, 15:28
In the interest of balance - I have no time Boris Johnson or the Lib Dems either. What's a chap to do?

Having read the BBC analysis of parties, there are some elements of UKIP (*) that look promising, a few bits of the Green, or barring Monster Looney there are some other left wing Socialist Worker type ones.
(*) UKIP's problem to me is that it muddles the symptoms of economic problems with the causes of them, particulary migration from certain countries.

Stanley wrote: ↑20 Nov 2019, 03:26 I watched about 15 minutes of the ITV face to face...Who would I buy a used car off? Corbyn, definitely not Johnson!

We stuck it out for a whole 30 minutes before pressing the off button. I wouldn't choose to buy a used car off either of them, but if I was forced to buy from one or the other then it would have to be Corbyn. Fortunately I don't have to make that choice, other makes of car are available!
Johnson was predictably Boris, all bluster and blather, fit to be the court jester but not a prime minister. Corbyn, give him his due, was not bluster and blather, was calmer and showed how his experience at debate with the public is a better preparation for this sort of thing than having taken part in Oxford union debates. But Corbyn threw away his chance to defeat Boris by stubbornly refusing to state whether he would take us out of the EU or keep us in. He should have followed the same route as several of the smaller parties and said he would revoke Article 50. By not doing so and not stating his choice of in or out he threw it all away and has given the right wing press a wonderful opportunity for headlines.

There will be no need for campaigning for either option under the Labour plan. The deal is to negotiate a deal then put that deal or leave straight to the public in a referendum, no need to canvas it is what it is. Action the result, deal or remain. He doesn't have to say which way he will vote and it doesn't matter anyway, the public will get to decide.

Johnson didn't say whether he would support a Labour deal to leave once negotiated either, pot, black and all that.

Not looked at your link Stanley but I assume it is about Tory HQ rebranding itself as "Factcheck". Works both ways a left wing activist has rebranded his twitter feed as ToryHQ and is using it to encourage folk to vote Labour.

The Tory wheeze is getting a huge amount of flack on social media platforms, folk aren't as thick as they think.

PanBiker wrote: ↑20 Nov 2019, 10:07 The deal is to negotiate a deal then put that deal or leave straight to the public in a referendum, no need to canvas it is what it is.

But people know how long it took to negotiate the present (Tory) deal and they know the EU will probably reject what Corbyn is proposing because it's having your cake and eating it.

Broke the habit of a lifetime and watch the whole hour of the George Burns and Gracie Allen Show, George being Corbyn and Gracie being Johnson. Johnson can be summed up with two main strap lines. My fantastic deal and get Brexit done. My MPs are specially selected to make sure they do as they are told. He didn't say that directly but that was the inference. The NHS is not up for sale!! Alternative options were never mentioned. Give it away? swap it for some obsolete Tridents? Let the Americans run it until it collapses completely? push private insurance where there's a limit on payouts. etc, etc. A subject in itself that could take a hour. People are fed up with all this Bexit delay, whose fault is that? Who are these people? Personally I'd sooner delay than crash out with no deal. Johnson's continued sniping that Corbyn had done a secret deal with the SNP, in spite of being told three times there was no deal secret or otherwise caused Corbyn to lose his rag, cutting across the adjudicator and giving Johnson a bollocking. Another sign of annoyance was his death stare at the coordinated cheers from a group of Tory supporters at the back of the hall. Corbyn's detailed delivery of facts and proposals were exact but without any passion. A bit like a solicitor reading the contents of a will out. Johnson on the other hand kept away from detail and stuck to aspirations of what the great British people could do. At one time when he was littering the stage with his dead cats and ranting on well beyond his allotted time, his microphone was gradually turned down and there was a suspicion of men in white suits assembling to drag him off.
Why wouldn't Corbyn say whether he would back 'remain or leave' is simply because its the end of the process of negotiation. The Tories being quite happy to use the 'crash out' possibility as a negotiating tool so why can't Corbyn use something similar?
On a light hearted note, Corbyn's choice of a Christmas present to Johnson, the book, Christmas Carol by Dickens, went down rather well. Actually' I am a big fan of Alastair Sim.

Tizer wrote: ↑20 Nov 2019, 10:24 they know the EU will probably reject what Corbyn is proposing because it's having your cake and eating it.

Can you back that up with fact or insider information Tiz?

On the Factcheck wheeze, Twitter took exception to the confidence trick and reprimanded ToryHQ and have insisted that they use the former Twitter Handle which is now the case. Tories are getting a lot of flack so the ruse has backfired big time for them as it shows how devious they really are.

I agree that Corbyn would have done well to at least acknowledge that his personal choice would be Remain, as I suspect it is. His old Europhobe stance has evaporated now he has had a look though the furnace door.
Johnson is using the Trump tactic of bluster and lies to excite the populist tendency and from the vox pops I have heard it's a fertile field. I always warn against minimising people's tendency to be stupid and that's what is worrying me now. I am biased of course, it's a no-brainer. Johnson is a shyster pure and simple. At least Corbyn has the virtue of being as honest as a politician can be. Problem is that this can get you into trouble. For example, I know exactly what he meant when he supported the Palestinians on the grounds they were an oppressed people. As a matter of fact I have always agreed with that but it is as well to couple that with direct opposition to the use of violent tactics. He gave a rod to his opponents to beat his back and I'm sure he knew that but for him honesty was paramount. Unfortunately our current politics doesn't allow for nuances like that, the sound bite and the headline are all. Consider '40 hospitals' and 'tax cuts for the workers' and weep.
P, I agree with everything you wrote. In particular the dangers to that mythical beast 'sovereignty' if we exchange the EU for the US. That is madness.
Meanwhile, in another part of the forest.... See THIS BBC report about disgraced son Andrew 'stepping back'. Yes, right.... But really? Isn't it more likely that Brenda has blown a fuse and sacked him?

PanBiker wrote: ↑20 Nov 2019, 11:46

Tizer wrote: ↑20 Nov 2019, 10:24 they know the EU will probably reject what Corbyn is proposing because it's having your cake and eating it.

Can you back that up with fact or insider information Tiz?

Jean-Claude Juncker used exactly those words (cake and eat it) when he said a third country cannot have the same benefits as EU member states. They are desperate to avoid other member states thinking they too can pick and choose what they want and don't want. It was reported widely in the news media.

Bojo is being careless with his claims again...
`General election 2019: Has Boris Johnson got National Insurance cut confused?' LINK
`The claim: Boris Johnson unexpectedly unveiled the Conservatives' plan to raise the threshold at which people start paying National Insurance contributions. He said: "If we're lucky enough to be elected, so the first Budget we will go up to the £9,500 threshold and that will, as I say, put £500 into the pockets of everybody." Reality Check verdict: That's not the correct figure. The Conservatives' own press release says the benefit from raising the threshold to £9,500 in 2020-21 would be £100 per year. The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) says it would be £85 per year. '
He said that in North Yorkshire to a member of the public. The BBC report continues...
`In a separate interview with ITV News, Mr Johnson talked about the benefit from raising the threshold to £9,500 saying: "It's about £500 a year." The reporter challenged him saying: "That's not what you are guaranteeing. You are guaranteeing about £100 next year and there's an ambition for £500." But Mr Johnson was adamant: "You are not right there. We are going to £9,500 threshold initially and then the ambition is to get to the £12,500 threshold. But the initial cut that we are making does offer a £500 cut for every working person." '

Another example of liar liar, pants on fire. He only needs to say the lie a few times for it to be embedded in the media and influence lots of the more gullible.

With regard to the Corbyn deal. First we have to elelct a Labour Government . Then we can negotiate with the EU, there is no hard and fast Labour deal only targets, who knows what the deal will comprise of after 3 months of negotiation. Personally I think that the Ireland question is unsolvable. So, whatever deal is agreed will be put to the people. If it is total crap folk are likely to vote remain. The whole point is that the people will have the final say not Corbyn, parliament or anyone else with a vested interest.

The only safe way is revoke Article 50. People want to be done with it one way or another. It could be over in days if Labour got in and revoked immediately, but they're losing support because those people aren't sure they'll get a quick end to it all.

Stanley wrote: ↑21 Nov 2019, 04:51 For example, I know exactly what he meant when he supported the Palestinians on the grounds they were an oppressed people.

In today's world its Trump and his Republican allies who decide who are the 'Freedom fighters' and who are the 'Rebels'. Is it now Ok to say the Palestinian land under occupation is now Israeli land is spite of what international laws says. Then we have two of our right wing rags saying that Corbyn's pronunciation of Epstein making it Ep'sh'tein, like my german lecturer kept drumming into me, made it sound too German especially since he was a Jew. How nitpicking can you get?
On Prince Andrew, I think someone summed it up very nicely when they said "he's never been too bright".

Having just escaped a run-in with the Grim Reaper over my H5N1 man flu I was unable to concentrate on reading so I tuned into You Tube for a bit of music. An old favorite of mine is 'Jackson' both by Johnny Cash + Jane Carter Cash and Nancy Sinatra + Lee Hazlewood. actually a combination of Hazlewood + Jane Carter would have been Ideal.

Johnny & Jane
Nancy & Lee

Modifying the words a little you can get a nice little parody on Mrs May and Johnson on Brexit.

Brexit (to the tune of Jackson)

Yeah, we’ve got Brexit in a fever, hotter than a pepper sprout
We've been talkin' 'bout Brexit, ever since we got ‘Roon out
I'm goin't’Brussels, I'm gonna mess around
Yeah, I'm goin' t’EU, look out Brussels town

Well, now go on down to Brussels, go ahead and wreck our wealth
Go play your hand you big talkin' man, make a big fool of yourself
Yeah, go to Brussels, but go comb your hair
I'm gonna snowball Brussels. See if I care.

When I breeze into that city, the workers gonna stoop and bow,
All them shysters gonna make me, teach 'em what they don't know how
I'm goin' To Brussels, so turn a loose of my coat
Yeah, I'm goin' t’Brussels, Goodbye, that's all she wrote

Oh, they'll laugh at you in Bussels and I'll be dancin' outside No 10
They'll lead you 'round town like a scalded hound
With your tail tucked ‘tween your legs
Yeah, go to Brussels you big talkin' man,
I'll be waitin' there in Brussels, with my crappy plan,

Well, we got Bexit in a fever, hotter than a pepper sprout
been talkin' 'bout Brexit, ever since we got ‘Roon out
We goin' to Brussels and that's a fact
Yeah, we're goin' to Brussels, ain't never comin' back

Stanley wrote: ↑21 Nov 2019, 04:51 For example, I know exactly what he meant when he supported the Palestinians on the grounds they were an oppressed people.

In today's world its Trump and his Republican allies who decide who are the 'Freedom fighters' and who are the 'Rebels'. Is it now Ok to say the Palestinian land under occupation is now Israeli land is spite of what international laws says. Then we have two of our right wing rags saying that Corbyn's pronunciation of Epstein making it Ep'sh'tein, like my german lecturer kept drumming into me, made it sound too German especially since he was a Jew. How nitpicking can you get?
On Prince Andrew, I think someone summed it up very nicely when they said "he's never been too bright".

Having just escaped a run-in with the Grim Reaper over my H5N1 man flu I was unable to concentrate on reading so I tuned into You Tube for a bit of music. An old favorite of mine is 'Jackson' both by Johnny Cash + Jane Carter Cash and Nancy Sinatra + Lee Hazlewood. actually a combination of Hazlewood + Jane Carter would have been Ideal.

Johnny & Jane
Nancy & Lee

Modifying the words a little you can get a nice little parody on Mrs May and Johnson on Brexit.

Brexit (to the tune of Jackson)

Yeah, we’ve got Brexit in a fever, hotter than a pepper sprout
We've been talkin' 'bout Brexit, ever since we got ‘Roon out
I'm goin't’Brussels, I'm gonna mess around
Yeah, I'm goin' t’EU, look out Brussels town

Well, now go on down to Brussels, go ahead and wreck our wealth
Go play your hand you big talkin' man, make a big fool of yourself
Yeah, go to Brussels, but go comb your hair
I'm gonna snowball Brussels. See if I care.

When I breeze into that city, the workers gonna stoop and bow,
All them shysters gonna make me, teach 'em what they don't know how
I'm goin' To Brussels, so turn a loose of my coat
Yeah, I'm goin' t’Brussels, Goodbye, that's all she wrote

Oh, they'll laugh at you in Bussels and I'll be dancin' outside No 10
They'll lead you 'round town like a scalded hound
With your tail tucked ‘tween your legs
Yeah, go to Brussels you big talkin' man,
I'll be waitin' there in Brussels, with my crappy plan,

Well, we got Bexit in a fever, hotter than a pepper sprout
been talkin' 'bout Brexit, ever since we got ‘Roon out
We goin' to Brussels and that's a fact
Yeah, we're goin' to Brussels, ain't never comin' back

For information, Building Bridges Pendle and In Situ have organised two Hustings events so far. The first will be held at The Ace Centre, Cross Street, Nelson on 27th November, 6.30pm - 8.30pm. Second Hustings will be at St Johns Methodist Church on Albert Road, Colne on 3rd December again 6.30pm - 8.30pm. Candidates will answer questions pre-submitted by the public.

Anyone wishing to submit a question should contact Katie by email:

katie@buildingbridgespendle.org.uk

or by telephone: 01282 719303

All candidates have been invited. Confirmed are Azhar Ali (Labour), Arthur Gordon Lishman (Lib Dem), John Barry Richardson (Independent).

Andrew Stephenson has not replied, Azhar has asked that an empty chair should be placed on the stage if he does not turn up.

#talkingsociety

Here is the Real Change Labour Party Manifesto as published today:

Thanks Ian, Its a big read. Only on page 22 environment but I'll get there eventually.

It's a really incredible document. I'm plodding through it.

This bit caught my eye - looks like he's inviting all of the Middle East and sub Saharan Africa to come to the party.

We will work with others to resume rescue missions in the Mediterranean,
co-operate with the French authorities to put an end to the horrific camps,
and establish safe and legal routes for asylum seekers. Once here, refugees will have the right to work, access to public services and will be treated humanely by government at all levels

One of my favourite songs P and I love your version.
The general tone of comment I heard yesterday about the Labour Manifesto was nothing to do with the reasons for the changes proposed but incredulity at the sums of money and where it will come from. Money is all and the commentators have fallen for the preferred Tory line of Brexit and rubbishing Labour's plans as Communist.
The manifesto is a précis of what has gone wrong and what needs to be done to start a fix. Note, 'start a fix'. The answer to questions about the expense is that of course it's enormous. Apart from the new challenge of awareness about the dangers of climate change, the other matters have been starved of cash for over ten years and simply making up that shortfall would cost more than all the measures Labour is proposing added together.
As for the source of the money it must be to claw it back from where it has gone, inexorably upwards to the higher echelons, money Laundering, dodgy finance manipulations by The Lords of the Universe and on badly planned and ill conceived projects like Crossrail, HS2, Hinkley Point and above all Trident.
For the economic theory read Thomas Piketty and Joseph Stiglitz (I have).
I am reminded of 1945 when we had less money and even greater need. If Labour had listened to the nay-sayers we would not have had the NHS, the start of a proper house building programme and the transformation of society to what was in those far off days a move towards equity.
For confirmation of all the above look at the state of our political system, read the Parliamentary reports and official enquiries, listen to the practitioners in the various fields and above all open your eyes and look around you.
When the banks collapsed in 2008 I argued that this was a national crisis on a par with war and that the solutions should be found by cross-party agreement following the model of the 1940 War Coalition. The need for this became even more pressing after 6 years of failed Tory economic policies and the referendum. This was not done and is at the root of our current troubles. At every stage since 2010 the Tories have kept this in-house on the grounds they had a mandate as an elected government. I leave you to decide on that one.

One of the promises in the manifesto, to build 150,000 houses a year in the first 5 years of a Labour government has been getting a lot of flak as undoable. Back in the 50's Super Mac and then Harold Wilson in the 60's built over 300,000 houses each year, we were more strapped for cash then without doubt. There was a will for social housing and most were built for local councils, we know what happened to them when Thatcher had her master plan without due regard to replacing stock. That's the crux, where there's a will there's a way, goodness knows we need affordable housing for the young, extortionate private rents and 4 bedroom "town houses" at £375.000 a go are not what the country needs.

Labour Manifesto:

Tripps wrote: ↑21 Nov 2019, 22:53 It's a really incredible document.

That seems to be the opinion of many other folk too, Tripps!

Katya Adler's take on Boris's claim for agreeing a UK-EU trade deal...
`How fast could UK get a Brexit trade deal with the EU?' LINK

Tizer wrote: ↑22 Nov 2019, 11:25 That seems to be the opinion of many other folk too, Tripps!

Not least - The Institute of Fiscal Studies - but what do they know. . . .