GOOD TV

[Nolic]

I'll be watching "The A Word" BBC1 at 9.00pm tonight.. About a family coping with a youngster who has auiism/aspergers. Not heavy but very entertaining and a young star in the making playing the little boy. Music's good as well. Nolic

[PanBiker]

Me too Nolic and agreed on all accounts.

[LizG]

Last year we watched the first 2 series of Peaky Blinders and loved it. I can remember someone on this site recommending it. Does anyone know if there is there a series 3 or more?

[PanBiker]

It's coming back Liz, and on our required viewing list. Can't wait to see how Tommy and his boys are getting on.

Filming finished in January and it could be later this month when it returns over here Liz

Peaky Blinders - Season 3

[LizG]

Yeah. Thanks Ian. Could be another couple of years before we get here it especially if it goes to pay TV first. I'll keep my eye out for DVD release too.

[Stanley]

I'm enjoying episodes of Shetland I had never seen on UKTV's Drama channel. They are doing repeats of Pie in the Sky and Lovejoy as well as the old New Tricks series.....

[Tripps]

And don't forget Hetty Wainthrop. Tonight's offering.
Quite why Patricia Routledge was never ' damed' I don't understand.


(If knighted is a word then I'm saying damed.)

[Stanley]

I chose Ian Hislop on poverty David but went to Drama for New Tricks.

[Stanley]

'Shetland' on UKTV Drama tonight..... Still showing episodes I missed. I have become a fan!

[Bruff]

We’ve been watching some really good European dramas. Channel 4 has the ‘Walter Presents’ showcase online, but a lot end up on More4. The German drama Deutschland 83 was excellent, about an East German sent to West Germany as a spy in 1983. Spin, a French drama about spin doctors is also recommended. Then there’s the on-going series of Scandinavian dramas across all channels, generally good sometimes excellent.

Can’t wait for Peaky Blinders next month. Saw them filming the latest series in Liverpool; it’s mostly filmed here

Masterchef well into the season now – I do like that. But I prefer Australian Masterchef, that’s very good I think: I like the judges – a couple of hedge fund managers and a giant, as The Guardian calls them. You need to watch it…………………

Richard Broughton

[Stanley]

I'm still enjoying series two of Shetland on UKTV Drama..... I missed them all the first time round but am a fan of Jimmy Perez' now......

[PanBiker]

I watched Mark Evans's documentary last night "The Engine that Powers the World" on the development and domination of diesel engines.

I was wondering why Bancroft chose steam over diesel when it was built, was it just a little too early to go for a diesel plant which would have been three times more efficient and hence a lot cheaper to run?

[Tizer]

Ooooh, you're a brave man Ian, you've opened a potential can of worms there!

[Stanley]

It was not a good programme. Many of his 'facts' on diesel efficiency were very questionable and he had no understanding at all of tractors with paraffin engines. He was completely wrong about how long it took to get a stationary steam engine working in the morning and their thermal efficiency. I watched it but was fuming!

[PanBiker]

As a bloke that knows nowt really about engines I thought it was very interesting. I found the deltic configuration developed for the trains from the original concept intended for Luftwaffe use fascinating. Leaving aside how long it takes to start the two technologies from cold because there is a lot of difference between pressing a button for the diesel and firing a boiler to raise a head of steam. What are in your view the proper efficiency comparisons?

I have been furtling about and have found this based on locomotives.

Steam vs Diesel

I haven't read it all because a lot of the technical stuff goes over my head but I get the drift and the bottom line. It will do for me that every ocean going bulk transport carrier in the world is diesel, as are the vehicles that haul either by road or rail, from the haulage contractors artic's to the box vans and transits that do the little stuff. Apart from heritage equipment every piece of agricultural powered equipment is also diesel. The 18,000 container capacity cargo ship featured in the program (no longer the largest), can go something like three times round the world without refueling and is operated by a total crew of 14.

My original question prompted by Mark Evans's program was a genuine one. Bancroft was started in 1914 and opened for business in 1920. It was very late into the game of weaving production as the industry was already in decline. Steam, diesel and electric were all available at the time. I only wanted to know if the alternatives were considered, I would have thought they would have been. Was it just a little early for the alternative technologies? In a way I'm rather glad they did choose steam, it's less efficient but a lot nicer to look at.

[Whyperion]

Perhaps we need a thread for Steam ( backed for some years by Sentinal and Foden for road vehicles ), vs Diesel (in part it is simply bunkering costs being lower - storage and distribution for fuel per tonne I would expect to see as cheaper - plus less man-handling costs ).
Meanwhile following Flying Scotsman (the LNER Railway Locomotive) this evening with Robson Green had some infuriating 'facts' in it, particulary with respect to early steam railway applications - no mention of the technical ideas of Timothy Hackworth ( although employed at times by Robert and George Stephenson it was his ideas, more than theirs that drove locomotive technology forward), nor did he mention William Hedley and John Blenkinsop whom had previously both designed sucessful locomotives for the early application of steam haulage of colliery products. He also kept saying railway engine, rather than railway locomotive, Finally he told the 1926 Miners/General strike incident where the removal of a length of rail by striking coal workers was designed to affect a freight train, but instead a (? not on time ?) running 'Flying Scotsman' southbound (26 May 1926 10am Edinburgh to York) service was de-railed south of Cramlington , Northumberland, again the the producers had not checked their facts, as the actual locomotive ( involved apparently was LNER A1 class No 2565 Merry Hampton.

[Stanley]

Ian. it's horses for courses. It all depends on the application the prime mover is intended for and the resources needed for repair/maintenance. Put very simply, diesel wins hands down versus steam for road transport because it is easier to get ready for duty from cold and steam locomotives are very inefficient thermally because they have no condensers. I don't know the comparative figures but would guess that in efficiency terms alone, a diesel could be twice as good as steam. The same applies to rail.
Marine diesels are more attractive for propulsion because once adequate manufacturing and maintenance facilities were established to cope with the higher standards needed to make and maintain them they took up less room in the vessel because the boiler space became available for cargo. In terms of thermal efficiency the advantage will not be so great because the last steam driven ships were reasonably efficient, especially the very modern steam turbine vessels.
Large land based stationary engines are a different kettle of fish. Apart from their great mechanical advantage that they deliver full torque on the first stroke, obviating the need for any clutches or gearing, once 20th century standards of manufacture and efficient valve gear had been achieved, their efficiency was a matter of boiler efficiency and mechanical losses due to friction in the mill gearing. Large Lancashire boilers could easily maintain 75% efficiency if properly run and maintained and calculations of friction loss in millwork routinely reached efficiency levels of 80%. You still needed this millwork even if you installed a diesel and to the best of my knowledge no normal diesel has ever been made that can seriously exceed 50% thermal activity without complications like heat recovery from their exhaust as in Combined Heat and Power. Add to this the fact that repair/maintenance facilities were easily available Like Brown and Pickles in Barlick) and the fact that once installed and the capital costs written off, because of their longevity and reliability, the engines became even more efficient in economic terms and so there was no incentive to change to diesel even in new builds in the 1920s. A very few mills, like Shiloh, used steam turbines but they were only marginally successful and never became popular.
The only serious alternative to drives in mills was electrification, at first by installing large motors on the line shafts and retaining belt drives in mills with existing machinery and later by individual electric motors which had advantages in flexibility of siting machines as they didn't need to be near shafting. After WW2 the National Grid had to be modernised and extended and to make that economically possible consumption had to be increased so the National Fuel Efficiency board was formed and actively persuaded steam engine users that electricity was more economical and flexible. Faced with a backlog of repairs after the hard days of the war many mills converted and almost all regretted it because they found that individual motors were not as good drivers of looms in particular as the old belt drive from steady speed shafting. Many firms found that economically they were far worse off for two reasons. First the electricity costs were higher than they had been promised by the NIFE men and second, and this was the killer, they still needed their boilers for heating and process. It was only then that they realised that so long as they were running a boiler, steam used for driving the engine was so cheap it beat electric power hands down because electricity at the point of use from the National Grid is only about 20% (or less) thermally efficient. And yes, if you have followed this, if you have to run a boiler for other purposes it is still cheaper to run a steam engine driving shafting or an alternator especially with the more efficient modern boilers which can easily reach 85% efficiency. The big problem is that the support infrastructure (Brown and Pickles et al) and the manufacturing expertise has been destroyed.
I hope that clarifies the matter.

[Stanley]

Ian, that response could do with moving to steam engines so I am copying it there. As for TV. I thought the latest episode of 'Line of Duty' was good gripping stuff!

[Stanley]

Watched the last of series 2 of Shetland last night.... I hope they carry on with series 3.

[Stanley]

Watched the last episode of Line of Duty last night. Brilliant TV, had me on the edge of my set!

[Nolic]

It was excellent particularly the extra half hour where everything came together. I felt with the mini biographies of the main characters at the end that this will be the last series. A pity if it is. Nolic

[PanBiker]

Peaky Blinders next week.

[Tripps]

I seem to recall that when it was first launched, these people were said to be a murderous gang in Victorian Birmingham, who reinforced their cap peaks to use as a weapon, and blind people. Is that true, or have I misremembered? (is that a real word?) The whole idea was so repulsive, that I didn't watch any of it.

[Tizer]

...or have I misremembered? (is that a real word?)

It is now!

[PanBiker]

That is the premise Tripps, the first series was very good, based on the rivalry between Birmigham and London gangs for control of the turf accounting empire, betting and booze. A political slant on proceedings as well with government hired (Mr Churchill) hard men, Love interest provided by factions from Ireland and links also into the Romany Gypsy elements of our hero Tommy's life. It is violent in parts but based loosely on factual accounts with good dramatic spin.

I can't see it myself (or maybe I can), but hard boy Tommy is apparently well received eye candy for the female viewers.