ENERGY MATTERS

[Stanley]

You won't regret it. The new generation of boilers is far more efficient.

[Tripps]

Has anyone tried LED replacement light bulbs? I think they are about 5W, and I can't see that they are a winner when replacing existing low energy bulbs which are about say 12W. At £5 + each it would take a long time to get your money back, and I'm not sure about the amount of light they give. I've got a couple of battery powered LED lights, and I'm not impressed. Are the mains powered ones better?
I wonder if Pluggy has changed his bulbs yet?

[Pluggy]

We have some downlighters at church with LED lamps fitted. They were quite cheap (~£2 each). They were supposed to replace 9W CFL lamps, but they aren't very bright and the light is very blue (bluer than daylight flourescents). They don't suffer from the warm up period of CFLs which take about 5 minutes to reach full brightness and is more noticeable when its cold. I'm not particularly impressed. But better quality ones are probably better, I haven't seen any other led lighting other than what runs on batteries.

What many don't realise is that lighting contributes to the space heating in winter so they don't save as much as it seems, only the difference in price between the fuel you use for heating and electricity. There's less nuisance heat in summer though.

[Pluggy]

You won't regret it. The new generation of boilers is far more efficient.

I already did the sums, the old one is a late model non condenser and has a seasonally adjusted efficiency of 80%, the new one is 90%. It would be a lot more dramatic if it were a 1970's cast iron boiler which were typically 60% efficient. The fitters will give you the peak efficiency which is a lot more impressive sounding (~96%), but once the water temperature gets above 55 C they stop condensing and they aren't much better than an older non condenser. I'm going to have to use a condensate pump to get rid of the condensate, the boiler is in such a position that getting a naturally flowing drain to it is a non starter, on the plus side the drain will be internal using the kitchen sink/washing machine drain which shouldn't freeze and kill the heating.

[chinatyke]

Has anyone tried LED replacement light bulbs? ... Are the mains powered ones better?

These are widely used in China in decorative lighting and things like down-lighters and where spotlights were previously used. I have them on the stairs at my apartment. They are also used as street lighting on the elevated roadway sections where they are fixed to the parapet/guard rail about 2' above the road surface instead of using overhead lighting. That is very effective and efficient. They are also becoming common place on vehicles.

the light is very blue (bluer than daylight fluorescents).

You can get white LEDs with a yellower output. Apparently LED lights emit a bluish light and the yellower ones are coated with phosphors to change some of the blue into yellow light and this appears white, like the old black and white TV phosphors were yellow and blue only. (Before anyone says Blue + Yellow = Green: I worked in Mullards QC Lab and measured the ratio of blue to yellow phosphors on B & W tubes many times!)

One thing is for certain, you'll see a lot more used as incandescent bulbs are phased out. Efficient and robust.

[Stanley]

Just had an instructive and interesting experience. I noticed some interference on the radio but when I switched it off I found it was the CO2 alarm in the front room! It triggers at 30ppm and was reading 120. The problem was I had done my usual trick to wake the stove up before firing by having both doors open a crack. I've suspected for a day or two that I needed to clean out the bend at the bottom of the flue and it must be so because the stove was puthering back into the room. All doors and windows opened after closing the doors and it took about five minutes to get the reading back to zero. The stove is safe now, running with top door and bottom closed completely and just the draught control wide open. I shall let it burn off, clean it out and get to the bend to clean it. At least I know that the CO2 alarm is efficient!
It has cost me some gas! CH triggered by cold draught up the stairs. Kitchen is uncomfortably warm.....

[Pluggy]

I think you mean a CO (carbon monoxide) alarm Stanley, the amount of CO2 in fresh air is around 400ppm. CO2 isn't dangerous for humans until it gets to over 10% because it displaces the oxygen. Carbon monoxide is far more dangerous. What CO2 does for the greenhouse effect is something entirely different.

[Tizer]

Carbon monoxide (CO) levels over 100ppm are regarded as dangerous to health. It binds to the haemoglobin in blood and the myoglobin in muscle resulting in tiredness, confusion, depression etc. It's a product of incomplete combustion when only one oxygen atom has been added to each carbon atom of the burnt fuel, full combustion adds the second atom to give carbon dioxide, CO2.

[Stanley]

You are right of course, senior moment because I do know the difference. Once I'd got the stove drawing I decided to burn it off slowly so it could be cool today. It's burning the last of the fuel off now at full draught. Interesting how much smoke came out of the flue yesterday even though the fire was bright and clean. It was the deposits in the flue burning off because I ran the stove hot. Just goes to show that even with good smokeless fuel and a stainless steel liner, deposits build up in the flue so the message is to occasionally run the stove very hot to clear the flue. It will get a good clean out today!

[Stanley]

I was right about the lumps of carr in the flue, cleaned it yesterday and all that was left was fine ash in the bend.

[chinatyke]

Carr? Never heard that one. Same as cack? Crudd?

[Stanley]

Dialect term, also used for the encrustation in water pipes or drains that can eventually block them.

[Stanley]

As it gets colder the CH kicks in at a very low level. Might open the draught on the stove a bit and run it hotter. Nice to have two strings to my bow!

[Stanley]

Over 75,000 homes are without leccy this morning. Imagine the cookers that won't work, the CH that isn't working and the freezers slowly defrosting. We have a lot to be thankful for!

[Stanley]

Many people still without leccy and some will be hit again as the next storm comes in later today.
CH is helping stove at low level and house is warm. Things could be worse! Gas and leccy accounts in credit and coal paid for.....

[Tizer]

On the radio this morning someone consulted on the present power situation advised those in already badly affected areas to keep aware of the coming bad weather by `looking online'. I suppose he thinks everyone these days is using battery operated gadgets to access the Web - a PC ain't much use to access the Web if your power has already been cut off!

[Stanley]

I think I noted that as well Tiz. I feel sorry for the people who have been flooded but can't help thinking about the people who sold them houses that were at risk. Not everyone is as practical as us! Again, with the leccy outages, they didn't interview anyone who had anticipated it happening and taken precautions. I've gone as far as I can without getting a small jenny to keep the radio, freezer and computer going. Is it time I did something about that?

[Tizer]

Perhaps somebody who knows about generators could give some advice on this forum about what an ordinary (non-engineer) person might buy and how much it would cost in order to run essential home services? Where to get it, how to set it up and maintain it, how to store the fuel, safety aspects etc. Providing such information in a form to be understood by all would be a service, firstly, to the Barlick community but, secondly, for others who read OG wherever they live.

[hartley353]

Nearly choked on my coffee when I read that the power companies had said that if your electricity was not restored by midnight on Christmas eve then you would be without for Christmas day because their staff would be at home with their families. How can you run a service business and not offer it 365 days a year? As to self generation there are now many portable generators available at very cheap prices, it would not be practical to have these connected to your homes consumer unit but a selectiom of extension leads would allow you to run limited devices. these generators could be used for many other purposes during the year so would not be wasted. In the late nineties I tendered for and got a contract to fit automatic generator systems to a number of private telephone exchanges around the country. Their main customers were the ministry of defence and the goverment, plus the national lottery system, seems they new what was coming.

[Pluggy]

Perhaps somebody who knows about generators could give some advice on this forum about what an ordinary (non-engineer) person might buy and how much it would cost in order to run essential home services? Where to get it, how to set it up and maintain it, how to store the fuel, safety aspects etc. Providing such information in a form to be understood by all would be a service, firstly, to the Barlick community but, secondly, for others who read OG wherever they live.

You could take a look at one of my other haunts : http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/

Hideously complex subject to do it with even half of the flexibility the grid gives you.

[Stanley]

The simple way to do it (but get an approved sparks to do the work) Is to put a breaker in the circuit between the meter and the distribution box that has two sets of contacts inside, one handling the mains connection and one accepting the current from the alternator. You start your small independent generator and when it is up to speed throw the breaker that changes the source connection. The breaker must be sized to be able to handle the maximum current you take from the mains and it's a good idea, if your alternator is small, to make sure all the major power gobblers are switched off before you make the changeover. This is the system we used at Bancroft but in that case we were working on a far bigger scale on three phase 440V and the breaker was big enough to changeover even on maximum load.
I don't know the modern regulations but as far as I know there is no law against disconnecting yourself from the mains and once you are on your own jenny experience will tell you what it can stand. The beauty of this system is that it is fail safe as you cannot be connected to the mains and the alternator at the same time. At a guess, a 6KVA alternator on single phase would keep all the essentials going, freezer, CH and small items like lights and a PC. I'm sure there are far more complicated ways of doing it these days but they will be more expensive and likely to cause trouble. Keeping it simple like this was OK for a 500KVA alternator at the mill, it will do for a domestic property. Of course if you had plenty of money you could go for a bigger alternator that could handle normal maximum load but this would be very expensive.

[Tizer]

Keeping the CH going is probably one of the most important requirements for most people. I expect that many don't even realise that their gas or oil fired CH cannot work without an electricity supply - until the day comes when they get a lengthy power cut in winter. We're currently dependent on CH for space heating because we had to give up on the multi-fuel stove. Even with the chimney extended the stove failed frequently and neighbours have been doing the same with their chimneys to try to keep stoves going. It's a shame but the characteristics of our locality have changed and it's no longer viable to heat with a solid fuel burner. We'll probably buy a portable gas burner for emergencies and if anyone can recommend a type for use indoors I'd be interested to hear about it. We already have a propane cylinder outside the kitchen fuelling a gas hob on the cooker, which means we can cook without leccy, but I think indoor cylinders for heating have to be butane. Another option would be to pipe propane through to a fixed indoor heater if that's allowed. Looks like I need to investigate the elfin safety regulations!

[hartley353]

In situations of power losses. a couple of small butane lamps will be useful as will small battery powered LED lamps, and the old standby candles, as to heating the purchase of a set of thermal underwear, and warm clothing will be more than enough. Four season sleeping bags will ensure a good nights sleep. None of the aforesaid items should be considered as emergency back ups and will be of use all year round. As to cooking the choice of butane camping stoves will have an item to suit all needs and is available in the summer months for alfresco dining. As for entertainment there are many devices that can be used from a 12v leisure battery which can be recharged from your car. Most folks could survive for a few days with a few simple staples. Most modern deep freezers can stand a good while without power in the winter as long as you dont open them. so consider tinned and dried food as standby provisions.

[Stanley]

Tiz, without being on site I can't be specific about your stove and don't clearly understand "It's a shame but the characteristics of our locality have changed and it's no longer viable to heat with a solid fuel burner.". You've got the stove, you can have smokeless fuel delivered and keep a stock (this is about the same cost as mains gas). So it looks as though the problem is making the stove burn efficiently. From what you have said before draught seems to be your problem. There has got to be a way of improving this, after all, plenty of narrow boats survived with a small stove and a six foot flue! This problem is not insurmountable and if it was me I'd go for the stove and a coal stock outside before I started down the LPG route. By the way, I had a mate who ran a successful restaurant in a remote location on an external LPG tank. Not cheap but it worked.

[Tizer]

I don't want LPG to run my heating all the time, oil is much cheaper for that. My thoughts about bottled gas are simply as an emergency measure for if the CH is unable to run and it would just be one gas stove to keep the main room warm. Might be just a butane heater. The problem with the log stove isn't restricted to our house. We and our neighbours are at the bottom of a long slope on the edge of the levels and draught has always been poor around here due to stratification of air layers - you can see the mist form across the levels and creep up the sides of the slopes. Then the stoves go dead, capped by an air layer above and you can see smoke creeping out of chimneys and dropping down the sides rather rather rising or even blowing away. It's always been like this but has become more frequent during the last decade. Probably also not helped by the uncontrolled growth of large willow trees which the council and farmers no longer tend. Another factor in our decision is that my decreased lung capacity means I'm now less able to chop and saw wood and I'm also more affected by smoke and dust.