OneGuyFromBarlick

Big Kev wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 18:30
More like trying to word it so it doesn't sound like what Kier Starmer told him to do a couple of weeks ago.

Difficult to have the patience to listen to Johnson. HIs attempts to put a personal and party agenda atop a medical crisis creates the lack of 'adherence' to 'rules'. The words he choses to surround the message undermine the message that is being given.

On economics the Lockdown 2.0 ( this time excluding schools, basically), is going to favour the on-line businesses (where only the workers carry a risk of infection) rather than high street shops and market traders. Poundland must be thankfull they could sell off their halloween tat today. But the christmas plastic pollution items will have to remain until December.

I feel that every utterance of Tory MPs for the last six weeks defending the 'policy' of their leader, against what we know was science advice should be dug out and played back to them. Thankfully they are experts at re-writing history, and tommorrows political shows they will probably gloss over the next
4 weeks saying furlough scheme extended as before for another month, and that they hope we can have a Christmas close to normal with the steps they have taken. I hope PMQs Starmer asks Boris about given the advance warning and foresight from the science advisors why Johnson Ignored it , and what the extra cost as a result, in lives and govt expenditure will be as a result.

Stanley wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 04:19 The Johnsons and Starmers of this world are not voicing the needs of the people who most need help, they are fighting ideological wars of succession but for what end? Is it to get to a position of ultimate power? Having crushed opposition will they then use their position to advance the cause of the most needy?

I can only see that Starmer looks accross the Commons divide and thinks , with Brexit and Covid, thank goodness Labour is not in a parliamentary majority. (Actually I think Labour will never have a majority once you strip out SNP. Irish and Welsh Constituencies.

My mind goes back to when the process for electing a new leader was changed. That was what allowed the landslide of popular support that flooded JC into power and confirmed him later in a second ballot. The problem was that as it turned out he wasn't ruthless enough to grasp the levers of power and use them. Remember when half the Shadow Cabinet was rebelling publicly but left in post?
There was a deeper problem and it has never gone away. The Parliamentary Labour Party, ie. the MPs, lost control of the leadership and that remains the case. You will see that rectified shortly and the Party will swing back to the centre ground or even, Like Blair, move further to the right in some instances than Blair.
I can't help wondering what Stan Iveson and his mates would have said about this lot.
Later after thinking about the latest U Turn. "We are listening to the science" was the mantra when the virus first hit. Then as the economic consequences became clear Rishi Sunak was listened to and we relaxed precautions against scientific advice to improve the economy. Then as it becomes obvious that something is going wrong we bring in Tiers to avoid a Parliamentary debate. Then the evidence becomes overwhelming and Johnson has to impose a full lockdown. Have I got that right?

Stanley wrote: ↑01 Nov 2020, 04:01 You will see that rectified shortly and the Party will swing back to the centre ground or even, Like Blair, move further to the right in some instances than Blair.

By any means as well Stanley. You will see in my previous post how they are recruiting extra workers to process the resignations. The bonus of this for the right of the party is that they are also going to flout party rule again by trying to influence the outcome of the NEC election. They are deleting ballots of anyone who has already voted and subsequently resigned.

PanBiker wrote: ↑01 Nov 2020, 09:56 They are deleting ballots of anyone who has already voted and subsequently resigned.

I'm a little bit confused here. If these are individual secret ballots then the person should not be able to be identified therefore they shouldn't be able to cancel their vote. If they are part of a numerical quantity giving totals of voting preferences I can see them trying to ADJUST totals against those who have subsequently resigned.
Quoting the old adage. Its not who votes that counts its who counts the votes.

Stanley wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 04:19 Peter if your definition of what constitutes a Party is it cannot be split you'd better have another look at the Tories and apply that logic to them. Normal dissent and variation in policy options is the root of debate and eventual unity in agreement in any negotiation. The problem arises when one or other of the parties develops 'red lines'. I'm sure you can recognise the dangers of that one in all Parties!

As you know, I have no more love for the Tories than I do for Labour. They are both split and all 4 groups should go their own ways and let the electorate choose which of the four, or any other party, they want in power. I'm totally fed up with the present parties and would be happy to give a chance to any newcomers. They're unlikely to be worse than what we've got. Unfortunately a lot of the population feels as I do but I can see them resorting to something that would be a step too far for me. It's what has driven many people in the US to vote for Trump, and similarly for populist leaders in other European countries. Nigel Farage anyone? Did you see his performance with Trump a few days ago? If we don't watch out we'll have Farage draining the swamp. I used to say that Britain would never vote in a Farage party - now I wouldn't be surprised if it happens. Keep your fingers crossed that Trump doesn't get in for another term. If he does, Farage will be emboldened and people here will be wanting some of what they got.

plaques wrote: ↑01 Nov 2020, 10:49 I'm a little bit confused here. If these are individual secret ballots then the person should not be able to be identified therefore they shouldn't be able to cancel their vote.

The NEC ballot was done through a secure online portal and to claim your vote you have to use a unique two part security code sent to paid up members via email. For members without internet or email there is a postal option.

In an online voting scenario you have to have some method of validating those that are allowed to vote.

PanBiker wrote: ↑01 Nov 2020, 11:38
The NEC ballot was done through a secure online portal and to claim your vote you have to use a unique two part security code sent to paid up members via email. For members without internet or email there is a postal option.

In an online voting scenario you have to have some method of validating those that are allowed to vote.

Out of interest , if no one knows, that seems like a similar system that shareholder voting at agms etc is done on with the main company registrars for most listed and traded companies.

PanBiker wrote: ↑01 Nov 2020, 09:56 They are deleting ballots of anyone who has already voted and subsequently resigned.

i keep getting the name Winston Smith popping into my head. That was his job wasn't it?

That's about the size of it David. A Dystopian future is not far off the mark unfortunately.

When someone can go back into time and amend the result of a democratic election because some of the voters have changed their views- perhaps Dystopia is here already?

Dystopia? Isn't that where I heard The Donald is going to build his next Trump Towers and golf course?

When I wrote about Farage earlier today and said he'll be on a roll if Trump wins the US election I should have also said he'll be on another roll if Boris throws us out of the EU with no deal. Did you know that Trump's supporters refer to Farage as King of Europe? Yes, that's what Trump named him as and the supporters picked it up as a chant. Aye, we're all doomed I tell ye, we're all doomed.

`Behold Trump's pre-election secret weapon: Nigel Farage, 'king of Europe'' Guardian

It's late. . . .

The Donald faces his moment of truth soon. That'll make a change for him.

Time to put on record that I'm jealous of his superbly made suits, (and I used Abe Sacks of Spring Gardens and Salford so know of which I speak) and his world class skill at tying his 'necktie' as they call them over there. Rarely seen better.

The Covid virus races on unchecked because we can't do anything until there is a vote.
Johnson will not need any spin to protect him for a while, the media is going to be fully occupied with Trump v. Biden.
Meanwhile, the Labour Party looks for more and more imaginative ways of committing suicide. Business as usual.

Stanley wrote: ↑02 Nov 2020, 03:47 Johnson will not need any spin to protect him for a while, the media is going to be fully occupied with Trump v. Biden.
Meanwhile, the Labour Party looks for more and more imaginative ways of committing suicide. Business as usual.

Johnson and Trump, George Orwell was right 2 +2 = 5.
Tony Blair changed the Labour party into a watered down Conservative Party. This fact was acknowledged by Margaret Thatcher. Ever since then they have been trying to hold on to the middle ground as they call it and trying to forget or rewrite the principles the original Labour Party. Perhaps with the advent of covid-19 some of the nouveau gig economy entrepreneurs who see themselves as rabid capitalists will realize they are actually part of the new underclass. Keir Starmer's attempt to drop Jeremy Corbyn supporters may be a badly timed move.

Tizer wrote: ↑01 Nov 2020, 11:07 Nigel Farage anyone? Did you see his performance with Trump a few days ago? If we don't watch out we'll have Farage draining the swamp. I used to say that Britain would never vote in a Farage party - now I wouldn't be surprised if it happens. Keep your fingers crossed that Trump doesn't get in for another term. If he does, Farage will be emboldened and people here will be wanting some of what they got.

I see he has relaunched his pointless party under another guise, anything to stay in gob on a stick mode!

It's on the lines of No Lockdown or something like that. I heard it on the early news, groaned and turned over. The man is a disgrace probably better at wrecking than Cummings. Scary thing is that lots of equally brain dead folk will vote for him.

Yes, here's the story - watch out for `Reform UK'...
`Nigel Farage: Brexit Party to focus on fighting lockdown' LINK
`Nigel Farage has applied to change the Brexit Party's name to Reform UK, promising to focus on dealing with the government's "woeful" Covid response. He said renewed lockdown would "result in more life-years lost than it hopes to save" and argued that "building immunity" would be more effective. The party leader also said there should be "focused protection" from coronavirus for the vulnerable....While they were "keeping a close eye" on Mr Johnson "to make sure he does not sell us down the river" in any trade deal with the EU, they said it was time to "apply our energy and resources to the other pressing issues facing the nation"..'.

Farage is an opportunist, first it was Brexit and now it's lockdown.
Listening to George Eustace on World at One. Don't you hate politicians who start every other sentence with the words "Well. Look."

What strikes me is that we know we need to act yesterday but all that's being done is politicians arguing while the virus explodes. Hello??

I don’t give a damn about American politics. I don’t give a damn about who wins! What I detest, is how much air time is given to their election.
Go away. We don’t care! Get off our screens.

The Orange Knob of the Apocalypse was spouting off all sorts of insults at his opponent, I don't know enough about US politics to say who I would potentially vote for (I struggle with UK politics ) but the behaviour of the Knob would certainly put me off voting for him. He just comes across as being a complete idiot, whether that's just the image portrayed by the media I don't know.

Maz, you should do, Trump is a global danger.
I do hope he gets thrown out Kev. He is an insult to common sense.

I don’t give a damn about American politics.

From the few YouTube clips I have seen about USA politics in Australia they seem to favor Trump rather than Biden. This may be because there is a natural bias towards Trump in the media or the items are sponsored by the US. Australia is still trying to negotiate a trade deal with the US which could all change if Trump gets another term and it won't be to Australia's benefit.

No Plaques...from what I hear it is mainly stock market investors who are worried what will happen if he doesn’t get in. They all say he is good for business and the economy.
My personal thoughts are that they should not allow old men to hold office (and that includes the Pope).
Who needs these washed up geriatrics?

Stanley wrote: ↑03 Nov 2020, 08:03 Maz, you should do, Trump is a global danger.
I do hope he gets thrown out Kev. He is an insult to common sense.

I'll second that, Stanley. This US election is mega important, for the whole world not just the US. If Trump gets in again we're going to fall over the edge, worse than Brexit, worse than covid-19. It will fire up populists and fascists around the world while the US will collapse. Mind you, it's going to be big trouble for a while whoever gets in because Trump's supporters are oiling up their AK-47s and getting ready to fight back if Biden wins. No I'm not joking and I'm not exaggerating. Shops and offices are boarding up their windows across the US. They're going to be closer to civil war than they've been since the 1800s.

Kev, you don't need to know about US politics, just watch and listen to Trump. He's stirring up the unrest, calling out his supporters to intimidate voters and break democracy. He's a racist, a liar, a misogynist. Even Republican Party senior members are now worried about him. It's not the Republican Party any more, it's the Donald Trump Cult. People close to him have said that he wants to be a dictator. Remember Hitler?

He's attacking Professor Fauci again, all because Fauci, the world's most renowned epidemiologist and leader of the US fight against corononavirus, has told the truth about how bad the pandemic is in America, rather than repeating Trump's lies. I heard this morning one of Trump's team saying the virus situation is not as bad as in Europe. That's a lie. On a per 100,000 head basis they have 50% more cases than we have and 3 times as many deaths.
`Trump suggests he might fire Fauci after election' LINK

NB. Biden has now replied in a video: `I'll hire Dr Fauci... and fire Trump'.