POLITICS CORNER

[Thomo]

Some very interesting posts there, and I am going to "Nail my colours to the mast". 1. This country can not keep giving good money away. however noble the cause, just to keep up appearances, charity begins at home. 2. We should keep out any kind of conflict that involves religion unless the main religion of this country is threatened. 3. Welfare, those who have been here for many generations should be the first to benefit from what many of them have contributed to, we cannot afford to support those who come here for whatever reason, any longer. 4. The country is full, and it is time to close the door to they who seek to come here and survive with minimum input. They who seek to come here because they understand us to be soft and easy must be made aware that they could be wrong. The main body of our fellow countrymen and women fought long and hard for this country to become what it was, and deserve to enjoy the fruits of their labours and not see them squandered away on the whims of others. 5. The media. It is wrong to advertise drink and tobacco, yet fine to advertise "Payday Loans, online gambling and many other things that may end in disaster. 6. The structure of this country has been undermined by people with "good intent" human rights and a veritable plethora of other "well intentioned" bits of legislation, due to which we have lost our grip on reality, criminals and international thugs have little to fear. The heart is slowly being ripped out of this once proud country to be replaced by greedy bank employees and many unnecessary business enterprises that we managed quite well without, many of which are well adept when it comes to avoiding their fiscal responsibilities. The collapse of that great British institution, the Local Pub owes less to the power of the supermarkets than it does to the "No Smoking" ban, having been a publican I have many friends who all see the same picture. I cou;d go further but I have things to do!!!

[Tizer]

Bruff, re alcohol and violence...I'm sure it will be down to the thing I usually rant about - differences between populations and individuals. No matter what we do we won't prove that the UK population does or does not get violent after drinking alcohol. It'll be an individual thing, some people will and some won't, depending on their genetics and physiology combined with all sorts of other factors in their lives (health, lifestyle, upbringing etc etc). We spend too much time looking at averages calculated for large populations and not enough at individuals.

By the way, watch out for admitting you've had a drink. Remember my story about the British man on holiday in Florida? Knocked down by a car and admitted he'd had a drink or two and claimed from his travel insurance for the US health care costs. The British insurance company pointed to the T&Cs of his policy and refused to pay out because it doesn't cover you if you've got alcohol in your blood.

[Whyperion]

" make the UK more competitive and might actually make people buy British goods ".

Unlikley , Compared at present time as Cameron has noted China, India and Parts of South America can churn out basic stuff far cheaper than UK could , (mostly relating to conditions of employment ). Given choices over time the British Consumer ( including Govt procurement ) tends to go for the cheapest initial price [ some goods with a brand name this may not hold true], normally imported.

Arguably better for remnant of growth is to continue to support a service economy ( Under Brown I always thought he was trying to build some kind of economic growth based around taking in one another's children ) . The future may well be getting as much payment as possible to educate China's wealthy children.

[Stanley]

Strange manoeuvrings round the replacement of the Press Council. David Cameron pulled the plug on cross-party talks yesterday just when the participants thought they were nearing agreement. He says he is going to insert his version in a bill to be voted on next week and it looks as though the whole of the justice bill could be brought down by an alliance of LibDems, Labour and even some Tory members. Has he a death wish? Or is this an attempt to assert his waning authority? Is it because he doesn't want what Leveson recommended, an overseeing body with power to use existing law to punish offending publishers because he has been influenced by the press barons? Nobody seems to have any idea why he took this unexpected course. There is of course a simple but not very likely explanation, that it is a cock-up. Take your choice, he's lost me.
One very interesting comment emerged from one of the anti hacking group, she said that Cameron promised to consult with them but hasn't, the only people he seems to have talked to are his mates from the papers. All very strange.....

[Tardis]

Strange thing Leveson

I have no desire to enshrine in Law, a body which could ultimately be controlled by Parliament, as that is where Law is made

Many people are calling for restraint, and the Law is finally prosecuting those that have already broken it. It would appear that even Piers Morgan once of the Mirror has now been fingered by a supergrass. That will clear the stables.

The fact that our officials also take kick backs for these stories comes fairly close to admission of corruption and collusion

I do wonder how the Huhne story would have been reported, if there was control through the Law because he used every legal avenue until he got to the steps of the courthouse before admitting his guilt. Until then he was as white as 'driven snow'

There obviously is a balance, but leaving the press open to ridicule and the freedom to purchase other titles are far more important than whether or not a hooker sells the story of a $25 dollar trick on a celebrity

[Stanley]

I see that the EU has bailed out Cyprus. The threat of collapse in the Mediterranean economies seems to have been put on the back burner by the EU but in truth, nothing has changed, it makes you wonder how risky this is.

[Tardis]

The politics of the NHS rumbles on, Andy Burnham even had to defend his performance as Health Sec today on Today

Things are getting serious, but nothing is actually happening within the NHS, there is no accountability for all that money poured in

A scandal appears to be brewing over Morecambe NHS too, the media smell a significant story

[hartley353]

I see that the EU has bailed out Cyprus. The threat of collapse in the Mediterranean economies seems to have been put on the back burner by the EU but in truth, nothing has changed, it makes you wonder how risky this is.

My tax exile little sister lives in Cyprus,when I asked her about this her quote was No Problem. Lot of the press also ignored this one. Four hours later she e/mailed " Might have been hasty."

[Stanley]

I have friends out there in retirement as well. They will not be pleased with the announcement that the Cypriot government is considering a 10% levy on all savings accounts as a contribution.... Reports this morning that cash machines are very busy as people draw money out....

[hartley353]

I have friends out there in retirement as well. They will not be pleased with the announcement that the Cypriot government is considering a 10% levy on all savings accounts as a contribution.... Reports this morning that cash machines are very busy as people draw money out....

Cash machines have run out and its a holiday on monday. They planned carefully to do this. Now the door is open watch others follow. My sister like any wise investor has spread her risk so will only be robbed of 6+%. There was a lot of russian money there,but I feel no empathy for them.

[Stanley]

It transpires that this was an EU condition for the bail-out loan. Already being called the Great EU Bank Robbery and the feeling is that it is an experiment on a small country to see how it goes. Expect this to be used against the other debtor countries. The worst aspect of it is that this raises the potential for public reaction and perhaps direct action against the EU.

[Tizer]

Apparently there's a cartoon in one of the papers showing a bank robbery...but it's the bank staff robbing the customers!

[hartley353]

Banks have been robbing their customers for a long time now, it would appear they have decided to do it without the mask. It will be interesting to see what happens to Gold prices now, will the Federal Reserve be still able to control it, if they can't we are all in big trouble. The story of the three little pigs comes to mind, This financial house of straw is blowing down.

[hartley353]

Some very interesting posts there, and I am going to "Nail my colours to the mast". 1. This country can not keep giving good money away. however noble the cause, just to keep up appearances, charity begins at home. 2. We should keep out any kind of conflict that involves religion unless the main religion of this country is threatened. 3. Welfare, those who have been here for many generations should be the first to benefit from what many of them have contributed to, we cannot afford to support those who come here for whatever reason, any longer. 4. The country is full, and it is time to close the door to they who seek to come here and survive with minimum input. They who seek to come here because they understand us to be soft and easy must be made aware that they could be wrong. The main body of our fellow countrymen and women fought long and hard for this country to become what it was, and deserve to enjoy the fruits of their labours and not see them squandered away on the whims of others. 5. The media. It is wrong to advertise drink and tobacco, yet fine to advertise "Payday Loans, online gambling and many other things that may end in disaster. 6. The structure of this country has been undermined by people with "good intent" human rights and a veritable plethora of other "well intentioned" bits of legislation, due to which we have lost our grip on reality, criminals and international thugs have little to fear. The heart is slowly being ripped out of this once proud country to be replaced by greedy bank employees and many unnecessary business enterprises that we managed quite well without, many of which are well adept when it comes to avoiding their fiscal responsibilities. The collapse of that great British institution, the Local Pub owes less to the power of the supermarkets than it does to the "No Smoking" ban, having been a publican I have many friends who all see the same picture. I cou;d go further but I have things to do!!!

Thomo I thought your posting may have stirred a response. Maybe like myself everyone is in agreement with what you say, the great british pub was always the place to discuss larger issues, and I for one miss this,seems these discussions carry on in Westminster bars ,and end in fisticuffs

[Stanley]

Here's a politician's view, speaking about the rich and the poor:

Two nations, between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy, who are as ignorant of each other's habits, thought and feelings as if they were dwellers in different areas or inhabitants of a different planet. Who are formed by a different breeding and fed by different food, who are ordered by different manners and are not governed by the same laws.

Sounds familiar? This was written by Benjamin Disraeli in 1845 in his novel 'Sybil, or the Two Nations'. Some things never seem to change....
Spoke to my friends in Cyprus and they are not affected by the bank robbery because they are in the Turkish partition, I didn't know whether this was still in existence but evidently it is. The Cypriot government is having a rapid rethink about the Robbery. As with all these measures, it turns out that it's more complicated than we thought. Evidently one of the reasons why the government spread the pain across all capital holders was to limit the effect on the funds in their banks held for off shore investors, if they were withdrawn the banks would collapse anyway! So, they are looking at the fierce reaction on the streets and having a bit of a think.

[hartley353]

There was always an intent to have a government vote on the bail out, but not easy to discuss with a gun at your head. I would love to hear what Russia is offering Cyprus ,to maintain a financial prescence in the med. They are well able to finance new countries.

[hartley353]

Here's a politician's view, speaking about the rich and the poor:

Two nations, between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy, who are as ignorant of each other's habits, thought and feelings as if they were dwellers in different areas or inhabitants of a different planet. Who are formed by a different breeding and fed by different food, who are ordered by different manners and are not governed by the same laws.

Sounds familiar? This was written by Benjamin Disraeli in 1845 in his novel 'Sybil, or the Two Nations'. Some things never seem to change....
Spoke to my friends in Cyprus and they are not affected by the bank robbery because they are in the Turkish partition, I didn't know whether this was still in existence but evidently it is. The Cypriot government is having a rapid rethink about the Robbery. As with all these measures, it turns out that it's more complicated than we thought. Evidently one of the reasons why the government spread the pain across all capital holders was to limit the effect on the funds in their banks held for off shore investors, if they were withdrawn the banks would collapse anyway! So, they are looking at the fierce reaction on the streets and having a bit of a think.

Good Quote, In my distant memory I remember a guy using this during a discussion, when I was a radical socialist it must have stuck and was just awaiting a refresh cycle.

[Tizer]

Cyprus - and there are still UK politicians who want us to be in the Eurozone. It just reinforces what I think about politicians!

[Stanley]

Tiz, if there is one certain thing about the pantomime in Cyprus is that politicians and bankers are the worst people you could find to run an economy! By insisting on the bank levy as part of the bail-out, the EU has put Cyprus in a position where if they open the banks there will be a run, making the original position worse. Voting the measure down unanimously means that the bail-out can't happen, making the position worse that way. Observers say that two of the Cyprus banks are terminal cases and will fail whatever happens. Meanwhile no money moves in the economy and services and supply chains are failing.
Cypriot Finance Minister is in Moscow trying to broker a deal whereby Russian money bails them out. Rumour is that this is connected with gas concessions around the island and Gazprom could be the investor in return for concessions.
There is of course a wider scenario. The EU have been sat there with their finger in the dyke holding back a general melt-down in the Mediterranean economies which despite all the rhetoric are all teetering on the knife-edge. At a stroke they have destroyed confidence in the Cypriot banks and raised questions about all the EU banks. If they get away with a levy on Cyprus how 'safe' are the EU banks for investors. Tell me how they could have shot themselves in the foot more efficiently.... The EU train wreck is still happening albeit in slow motion.
Meanwhile, here at home, expect the worst budget ever, wrapped up in rhetoric 'proving' that present policies are working. It will be a triumph of rhetoric over reality. Tin hats on lads.....

[Tizer]

The EU, and especially the Germans, are saying why should they bail out people who have over-borrowed, even if they are only ordinary folk who've borrowed too much - after all they've benefited from cheap loans. But it's not as simple as that. Banks and other businesses have been forcing loans on those ordinary folk. When we changed our car we were offered a good discount but when it came to handing over the money the VW garage would only give the discount if we took out a loan with VW Finance. We said we don't borrow money, which seemed to surprise them. They wanted the sale so much that they arranged the loan, we paid for a few months, then we were allowed to pay it off with our cash. We got the discount and the deal ended up no different in total cost to us than if we'd paid cash. But we were forced to take out a loan! Most people would probably have let the loan run on - which is what the companies are hoping for. But how can we avoid overlending and credit bubbles if this is how business goes on these days? Why should ordinary Cypriots lose part of their savings even if they've been persuaded to take a loan (the salesmen make you feel like an idiot if you turn them down). And the ordinary Cypriots who might lose part of their money are probably the savers who don't take loans but pay cash like me!The EU, and especially the Germans, are saying why should they bail out people who have over-borrowed, even if they are only ordinary folk who've borrowed too much- after all they've benefited from cheap loans. But it's not as simple as that. Banks and other businesses have been forcing loans on those ordinary folk. When we changed our car we were offered a good discount but when it came to handing over the money the VW garage would only give the discount if we took out a loan with VW Finance. We said we don't borrow money, which seemed to surprise them. They wanted the sale so much that they arranged the loan, we paid for a few months, then we were allowed

[Bruff]

On the 'Good TV' thread, I've posted on the excellent Richard Feynman drama that went out Tuesday on BBC2.

To get to the crux of just what has happened to the global system these past 5 years or so, we need someone of his powers and intellect and perhaps crucially independance, to identify the cause(s) and not be distracted by what are effects and symptoms. Asset bubbles, public/private debt, fancy financial products and so on strike me as effects and symtoms and not causes, rather like an elevated temperature in a patient is a symptom but tells us nothing about the cause(s). At the moment it does seem to me we are confusing the two and frankly getting nowhere to fixing what appears to me a broken system.

Richard Broughton

[Tardis]

A good day for the deputy speaker of the the house, especially the line "anyone would think that the opposition don't want to hear from their leader"

[Stanley]

Richard, you're right! The system is broken. Nowt wrong with Capitalism as long as the Capitalists don't control it!
Best comment I heard about the miserable budget was that Osborne looked like a farmer wandering round a field of blighted potatoes looking for a few good spuds for dinner. Just about sums it up, problem is of course he's in the wrong field using the wrong methods....
I can't help thinking back to 2010. The best political move for the Tories would have been to allow a LibLab coalition.....
I've said it so many times that you must be bored, however, here's my version once more. The major driver of the economy and GDP is the disposable income of the lower 85% percentile. Their spending goes direct into the economy with no time lag and moves upwards triggering the Multiplier Effect. This is the way out and the problem is that hidebound dogma blames the 85% and punishes them instead of cutting the high end of spending outside public services. Until this happens we rely on external factors to rescue us and they look terrible. So tin hats on, this is not going to get better.

[Bruff]

That would be Mr Deputy Speaker Lyndsay Hoyle, MP for Chorley and possessor of the finest Lancashire accent to grace Parliament since Rhodes Boyson

Richard Broughton

[Tizer]

The major driver of the economy and GDP is the disposable income of the lower 85% percentile.

No, Stanley, you're not supposed to say that. Next thing is you'll have folk thinking that it isn't the executives and moneymakers in their Canary Wharf ivory towers who drive the economy!