ENERGY MATTERS

[Stanley]

Good luck with that one Ian. It sounds like a complete cock-up on BG's part. Question is, will they recognise it? After all you are only a customer......

[PanBiker]

Meter reading time again for British Gas. I did them last night and sent them in. No response yet to my rebate claim, they must be saving up!

I started the ball rolling on this query just about a month ago now. According to Ofgem a supplier has 8 weeks to sort it out, the customer can then appeal to the energy Ombudsman who can force them to take action or pay compensation. I have asked what I consider to be a very simple question but one that is quite pertinent. I don't for the life in me think they actually owe me anything but I will have an answer about the erroneous entries on my accounts. Clock is ticking BG.

[Pluggy]

Your problem isn't a change of meter or a 'going round the clock' issue is it ? A standard meter only measures to 100,000 kWh (99,999) before starting again. 86,000 kWh sound like most of the range. From experience BG can be pretty stupid when it comes to meter readings......

[PanBiker]

Not a round the clock problem or meter swap out Stephen. I have looked at my previous reading for a few months before and an odd one after, both meters have increasing readings as you would expect.

04/11 G 07804 - E 07210
06/11 G 07885 - E 07747
07/11 G 07923 - E 08153
08/11 G 07993 - E 08266 Meter Reader *
10/11 G 08115 - E 08983
02/12 G 08915 - E 10127

* These are the offending readings that they attributed the inflated energy usage to.

It is interesting that on the electric meter reading the energy usage is given as the same as the decimal reading of the meter 8266Kwh. Looks like the amounts recorded in the account are not calculated using some kind of current tariff algorithm or this could not happen. They must be manually entered or something. Clearly it is wrong and much more so on the gas account with over 86,000Kwh for the 70 units used from the previous reading.

[Stanley]

Looks like garbage in garbage out on the part of the meter reader.....

[PanBiker]

Apart from the fact that the offending reading was not mine, it looks perfectly OK to me and what you would expect from an incremental device, so the meter reader is off the hook. Problem is fairly and squarely with those who prepare the energy accounts. At the moment they are very quiet.

[hartley353]

British Gas cold called me last evening to enquire would I like our meters to be replaced with smart meters. Their offer was politely refused I will stick with the ones I trust,and hopefully the meter man will still have a job.

[Pluggy]

I'd be worried by that it appears you've used nearly 3000 kWh of electric in something under a month. I get grumpy if ours goes over 300 in a month. You're reading the decimal place in the right places ?. Most electric meters have 6 digits and the last one is 1/10 of a unit which is ignored for the meter reading.


The bottom left of the 4 is what the energy companies want, the others are so I know what's happening with my solar panels.

Electric is billed directly from the meter, Gas goes through a conversion process to change the volume measure by the meter to a heat value in kWh. It comes out at around 11.2 kWh per cubic metre, or around 36.3 kWh per 100 cubic feet if its an old meter. My Gas meter is a newish one and it has 3 digits after the decimal point.



We use around 3500 kWh of Electric per year and around 18000 kWh of Gas (Circa 1600 cubic metres)

Hartley, the upside of all my meters and my obsession is that I can check the accuracy of a new meter. I know my present one reads within 0.3% of my old one that's was replaced in June 2012. (the old one ran backwards when the sun was shining). The new one reads fast on the old one but I'll live with the approx £1 a year extra it costs me.

[PanBiker]

[quote="Pluggy"]I'd be worried by that it appears you've used nearly 3000 kWh of electric in something under a month. /quote]

The last two readings shown are 4 months apart and through winter. Dates shown are MM/YY.

My electric meter does not have a decimal point and is currently displaying 5 digits although it looks like the LCD can display more. Gas meter is mechanical and does have a decimal place which is ignored. The readings are correct as far as I can see, it's the calculation I have a problem with.

[Pluggy]

Your figures a reasonable with mm/yy dates, my mistake.
My 3 other meters are programmable type and can be set to any number of digits and up to 2 decimal places. They're refurbished but the vendor had a programmer so he could set them as you wanted and zero them. They are all set to 5.2 digits.

Assuming your gas meter reads M3 (cubic metres) you've used approx 12400 kWh of Gas in the period which would cost around £500 at typical Gas prices (£0.04 per kWh)
You've used 2917 kWh of Electric which comes out at ~ £408 at a typIcaL £0.14 PER kWh

[PanBiker]

For the period in question on Gas, I used 70 units between July and August 2011. My energy usage for the period based on this is the one shown as over 86,000Kwh, in my account.

[Pluggy]

Looks like we're back to British Gas stupidity......

What have they got down as the before and after meter readings to arrive at that princely sum ?

[PanBiker]

April - June 2011 - 81 units
June - July 2011 - 38 units
July - Aug 2011 - 70 units
Aug - Oct 2011 - 122 units
Oct11 - Feb 2012 - 762 units

I only have my readings, interim ones and the August one were all done by the meter reader, they are all incremental though and what you would expect for seasonal variations. The contentious issue is how they turn 70 units into 86,000Kwh of energy usage for July/August.

[Pluggy]

Out by factor of 100 ?.

[Tizer]

Those 50mm thick panels of PIR insulation (covered on both sides with reflective foil) that we had fixed to the inside of our external walls a year ago have made a great difference to the temperature of the rooms and I'd recommend anybody who has solid walls to do the same if they can cope with the slightly smaller room space and the need to move fixtures such as radiators, sockets, sills etc. Some of our other walls could do with the same treatment but for various reasons can't be done on the inside so we are planning to put insulation panels on the outside where possible.

[Stanley]

I'm sure you are right Tiz but the prospect of the upset in my cluttered little house is to traumatic to even contemplate. Being a terraced house it would only be two outside walls.

[Tizer]

A sensible decision, it isn't worth bothering for a small compact terraced house that can be heated easily and economically.

[hartley353]

In the 70's I purchased a property of three terraced houses, one was a straight forward 3 upper rooms and two lower rooms. The next section was two terraces with only one upper floor and one lower floor running through, which had been an old Fustian business. This property had no straight walls no right angle corners, and an earth floor. After putting in a solid floor we battened all the walls, then plaster boarded with a thick layer of rock wool beteen each batten. The difference was immediate, from working with two jackets on we found we could work in only a sweater. When the buiding work was finished it was a very cosy 5 bedroom home. Since then I have always been a fan of insulation.

[Wendyf]

We just have one bit of wall left to insulate which is in the kitchen and is, hopefully, part of this year's major task. Everywhere else is warm & cosy. It has made a huge difference to the amount of oil we use.

[LizG]

We recently renovated a 70's holiday house. It was double story with cathedral ceilings, a corrugated iron roof and no insulation between the ceiling and the roof. Consequently it was super hot in summer and very cold in winter. The very first thing we did was to put in a false ceiling and about 9 inches of insulation. The difference it has made is amazing; far better than we had hoped. We didn't run the air conditioner at all for the whole of summer. We've yet to see how it performs in winter but we are expecting great things.

[Tizer]

When calculating the insulation efficiency of walls etc I've found this online U value calculator an easy one to use. Just click the appropriate materials in the dropdown menus and add the thickness in millimetres. You might have to click an empty box to make it update after each addition. The lower the U value the less the heat loss and therefore the better the insulation. I think the maximum U value allowed for walls in the Building regulations is now about 0.30.
http://www.vesma.com/tutorial/uvalue01/uvalue01.htm

[EDIT on Wednesday] Our rooms at the back (solid walls, north facing) were the coldest in the house but now they are the warmest after we put 50mm of PIR board on the inside of the external walls and on the concrete floor. That's why we are now doing the rest of house wherever possible but have to use external instead of internal insulation for various reasons. Sometimes people say it's not worth doing because you won't get back in fuel savings what you spent on having the job done. That's debatable, but fuel savings aren't the only factor. You also have to take into account the much higher comfort level that you get when the room stays at a constant warm temperature instead of the ups and downs of radiators trying to keep up with heat loss. Also, the temperature of the insulated room can be raised much faster than when the solid walls were exposed.

[Stanley]

An interesting fact popped up in the reporting of the SSE freeze on energy prices. Profit margins for UK providers ranges from 5-7%, those on the continent run at 2-3%.

[Stanley]

The prospects for 'keeping the lights on' took a bit of a hammering once the Big Six energy companies had digested the consequences of the enquiry into the market. Not a lot of incentive to invest if you could be forced to divest. The government insists that other investors are clamouring to get into the market but the question is will they get in in time? My advice is to work on worst case and make your preparations now!

[hartley353]

Hundreds of years of coal deposits found under the north sea, that will keep our lights burning. We just need a goverment with the sense to use it, the technology for its use is there, and far less polluting than burning wood chip. Should the lights go off it will be by desire.

[Stanley]

Russia puts the screws on Ukraine this morning by raising gas prices by a third. The excuse is that Ukraine owes so much for previous supplies but this was a position engineered by Russia by subsidies. We should be taking note. Of course the government says that we use very little Russian gas but this ignores the commercial reality that if Russian gas prices go up it will affect global prices.



I made my own move into the energy market yesterday. Coal burned off, corner of the yard cleaned, a new coal bin (the bottom had gone in the old one) and ten bags of coal delivered. The house core temperature is up at 21C now so the heating season is almost over. There is enough coal to take me into winter and I shall get another ten bags before long because I think the price will almost certainly go up in late summer. A possible 10% on the investment, not a bad rate! Virtually no gas burned this winter so the refund from BG will almost certainly pay for the coal, they have great difficulty understanding a customer who burns so little gas and always charge too much per quarter on the direct debit. No sweat about this because, being poor, my bank doesn't pay me any interest so the money is just as safe with BG as anywhere else. In fact, looking at the way the banks run, possibly safer! All right, I'm old fashioned but having a reserve of fuel already paid for is preferable to pay as you go.