OneGuyFromBarlick

I've posted elsewhere but the Archive site and the LTP with it is back. Its a fudge but it works, theres a server misconfiguration it seems which doesn't allow standard index.html files to work.

I've had a furtle but you are right, it's not complete and many of the links report an error. I can't help thinking we need a new reload. If I can help, let me know.

Its as complete as it has been whilst its been on the new system. Doc said the 'mining' software he used to make it work fell over on some parts of it because it was too many directories down. Getting the old system to work on the new involved some unholy botches, and Doc will agree with that. What used to be dynamic software (like the new forum and the vast majority of websites) was converted to an awful lot of Static pages to make it work on what what to Windows was entirely alien software (which is the main reason its read only - it can't be changed on the fly). When I get a bit of time, I'll see if I can get the pictures from the copy of the LTP you gave me incorporated into the online pages. It seems its most of the pictures that don't work - the directories and the enclosed pictures are missing (which is what I said was missing earlier when I first looked at it). Its not related to the Archived site going down. I'm busy today and probably tomorrow so don't expect it too soon.

The links to the transcripts have errors as well Pluggy. I can't help thinking that the easiest way out of it for you is if you made it possible for me to repost the whole thing. None of the individual segments is big, it's the equivalent of making 300+ posts if you could give me a protected framework in which to post them on the new site so that it was read-only. That would get the LTP off your back and leave you free to have a look at the Archive. Personally, I think that we should regard the archive as lost and abandon that project, just leave it as it is. I know it's a loss but it is soaking up so much time and effort. I don't blame Doc, all this was caused by the loss of the server. The LTP is important enough to require a different solution and a clean repost from the original files would be the best in the long run. Once it's up and running you could look at making it possible to download the whole project like it was before. Less stress and work for you.....

Sometimes I hate computers.

Funny thing is that I was doing some tidying up yesterday, cleaned my History out and went to site only to find there was a blank page. I was convinced I had destroyed the site! Quick call to Pluggy put me straight..... The joys of computers....

Pluggy, when you have time to get your head round it let me know if there is some way I can load the LTP onto the site. A protected area?

Its already done.

http://ltp.oneguyfrombarlick.co.uk/

Its the entire project as supplied zipped up.

Is it the intention to put a featured link to it from the forum page similar to the Archive page or maybe create a sticky like the announcements section?

Just finished the download, 5 minutes on my wireless (80211.b) laptop.

Pluggy. I've tried it and it works, I've downloaded it in 3 minutes and saved it to my research file and it opens OK from there. I have a couple of observations. The first follows Ian, If I hadn't found the link from your comment on this thread I wouldn't have known it was their. Not everyone is searching for it on Google, many find it by accident simply by browsing the site so can we do as Ian suggests and put a flag up somewhere, on the portal or the forum page, that shouts out to a viewer that it is there? Further, I still think that it would be an advantage if people could open a topic on the site which enabled them to access the LTP direct, like they could on the old site. As I keep saying, if you can create a partition on the site where I can post read-only items I will upload the whole of the Project as immediately viewable segments, many people are put off by zip-files because they don't know what they are. Please give it some thought.

On a more general point of access to the portal, even though I didn't log out yesterday I still had to access the portal by a back door by finding a Google entry to part of the site and logging in once I got there. Once Logged ion the site works as normal but a person who doesn't know this still gets the SQL error page if they try to open the portal.

I can't log in doing that. My login details aren't accepted.

I agree that the zip could be a bit off putting and I also got the feeling that in that format to me it seemed a little bit disjointed as there is no defined structure to the collection. It is all cross referenced but not easy to navigate as it is.

You could present it like normal threads within a new forum for the LTP with individual topics for each of the interviews but still retain it as a complete download for anyone that wanted the raw data files.

The new forum section could have with a banner like the Archive. All posts are read only to anyone other than the original poster, admins and mods. As a moderator you could just lock the topics from further input, effectively making it read only. You could unlock if you wanted to edit anything. Some form of announcement on the portal page to what lies within would complete the setup. Read the topics as a guest, register to get the download.

Further to my post above I have been having a look at the adminCP and the forum section.

1. A new Category to hold the LTP with a banner to attract attention

2. Within this, your preamble texts and how to use the LTP etc. set as sticky or annoucement topics.

3. Interviews sub forum with individual topics for each subject being interviewed.

4. Reference on the Portal Page to the LTP section within the Forum.

All of the above could be locked after creation. This would present the LTP as read only retaining the same structure as the rest of the site. The process would be very much like reconstructing the Research Topics section. All the images could be put in an LTP section within the Gallery and inserted where required or appropriate. The zipped archive could still be made available from another topic within the LTP category.

It would be relatively easy to set up the structure but would involve quite bit of work in the re-population. Once done though it should be easy to navigate.

Thanks for that Ian. I leave it to Pluggy to decide but I understand what you are saying and am prepared to do the re-population. Apart from taking the load off Pluggy, I am the best person to do it because I am the only one who fully understands the internal structure of the project. Big job but if I am pointed at it I'll give it all the time it needs.
On a historical note, the reason why the LTP lay fallow for 25 years was because it was so difficult to access as it wasn't digitised. It took me three years to digitise it so it could be accessed from the site, pity if all that work was wasted.....

All the above apart from putting the banner file in it's proper place on the site can be achieved with Moderator rights. I thought this approach would relieve the load on Admins who have enough on their plate at the moment anyway, it would not be difficult to set up. Best leave any decision until after the site is sorted though.

Why not get it its own website, and link it prominently from this site? I've looked - and "lancashiretextileproject" both .com and .co,uk are available for little money.

That's up to Pluggy, if he wants to do it that way I'll pay but what platform would be used and how easy would it be for me to do it? If we go down the route Ian suggest6s I can do it within my capabilities. Hopefully Pluggy will respond....

Whatever in the general consensus of opinion . The link I posted earlier is the original format Stanley produced in 2003/2004 just zipped up (Basically .jpeg photos and Microsoft word documents). It was easy to do. The HMTL version didn't transfer in its entirety form the old website at the beginning of 2012. Whats on the archive site now is what there is. Doc said it was the limitations of the 'Mining software' he used to make it work on the new setup. Its an unholy fudge if the truth be told as is the entire archive site, but I can't think of another way it could be done. Its a monster and its not all there.

I have plans to simplify things and transfer OGFB to my own hosting (I I'd like it to be simple phpbb which is what it is now but it has all manner of addons which Doc used to make it look a lot like the old site and give it similar functionality), which I think is up to the job, but not the archive site which would swamp it. The load protection on the present server (it kicks you off if you stress the server for more than a minute or two) makes it very difficult to get it off in any case. And it doesn't let you log in directly to the server to manipulate the contents at the "coal face". The addons make the database and php files much much more complex and difficult to manage. Recovering from a crash is a major undertaking.

If anyone wants to know what basic phpbb looks like :

http://www.pluggy.me.uk/ogfb/index.php

It has the OGFB database in it (albeit a day or two out of date) and should allow logins. Don't use it, this is still the master. I would 'doll it up' a bit with a few addons. Adding a static site or two to it to house the LTP and possibly other things wouldn't be an issue. Being static renders them much less likely to suffer hacking and crashes (no database to mangle). If somebody fancies knocking it up in Dreamweaver or something, don't let me stand in your way. Giving it a dedicated URL isn't a problem, as has been mentioned, domain names are cheap.

I'm open to ideas, but I'm a firm advocate of KISS (Keep it simple, stupid). And OGFB is presently most definitely not KISS.

Not sure whether you are talking about LTP or the whole site.
On LTP, give me the protected space and instructions and I'll upload the whole of the Project as normal viewable topics. I don't mind giving it the time.
As for the site, I reckon you should do whatever you think is the best and most stable. I'd favour the radical option of loading it as simply as possible even if it means we have to get used to a new format.
When you think about it, there are two essential elements to the site: The ability of members to open topics and respond with text and pictures. The ability of guests to log in and browse and search easily. All this under a more secure method of registering. I'll support whatever you decide to do if it makes the platform more stable and cuts down on maintenance time for you. We rely on you to maintain the site for us and we should allow you to run it in the most efficient way to make this possible. It's not fair on you that you have to spend so much time repairing botches. {By the way, abandon the archive, it's obvious that it's too mangled to be any use and is taking too much time and effort.)
Now for the controversial bit.... I don't see this decision as being one that needs to be democratic. Consult the moderators, decide on a course of action, present it to us and then do it. In the end we'll have a more stable and efficient site, nobody likes the outages least of all you because it's you that's putting in the time. People don't like change but sometimes it's good for them.
It's a Gordian Knot. Stop trying to unpick it, just cut it!

As I indicated in my pm I'm all in favour of anything that simplifies life.

I will again raise the thorny topic of subscriptions as many who use the site positively for their own reason choose not to contribute to its upkeep and ignore the costs and demands that go into trying to maintain its operation. Can we again give some thought to how all members can support the site ? Nolic

You do right to raise the matter. I'm afraid I've put it to the bacl of my mind and made a mental resolution to m ake up any possible shortfall my self because I value the site so much. I'll admit that this is not satisfactory but I also recognise that it's a very thorny subject and it might be as well to let this ride for the time being until we have a resolution of Pluggy's problems maintaining what is essentially a badly damaged platform. Once that's done and bedded in we can think about funding again. I'm assuming Pluggy will let us know if there is any shortfall in funding.

Subscriptions are a thorny subject, but I'm getting enough in donations from those who are giving, to keep the site going. If I transfer to my existing hosting the costs will be a lot less since I already have it and its too useful to be without. If it starts creaking under the load, I'll up the hosting package. I don't think its worth possibly alienating users pursuing payment. I'll put where it says 'I am a donor' I'll set it to 'freeloader' if they don't contribute (thats mostly tongue in cheek BTW ). It would be nice to have a bit of reimbursement for the time I put in.

I've had something of a baptism of fire when the site died on Saturday, and its made me realise what a mish mash of bits OGFB is. I was taken back the first time I saw the inside of the Admin control panel and again when I gained access to the files under pinning it. I would like firm opinions on running the forum (the bulk of OGFB and most important bit) using raw phpbb. Because that is easy to get back when something catastrophic happens.

Link again :

http://www.pluggy.me.uk/ogfb/ database is a bit out of date, but it should allow you to login and look around. Opinions welcome.

It can be polished somewhat but the more polishing the more work to recover it when something goes wrong. Doc did a lot of polishing....

I believe the "biggie" is uplaoding photos. Raw phpbb doesn't do it but theres no issue posting photos hosted elsewhere. The downside of the gallery is that what is stored there is entirely dependent on the sql database being reasonably intact. The files are stored as binary 'blobs' for want of a better term and the filename and location of said files are all generated by the addon software and the sql database. To me they should be stored as what they are and their existence should not be held to ransom by a database. I propose an FTP site hosted on the same server as OGFB to which I will give access to all the mods and those who post a lot of pictures, many already use external sites to post photos anyway. When Stanley discovers how easy it is to do with his Ubuntu I think he'll agree its the way to go. Important stuff will still be a part of ogfb. Windows usually needs some ftp software, but theres a fair degree of expertise out there. The few who want to post pictures without the know how can ask me or a mod agreeing to do it to put it on the ogfb photo store. The rest will do as they do now and use flickr or anyone of a host of other photo stores. The photos store would have its own sub-domain like photos.oneguyfrombarlick.co.uk. Easily transportable for the future.

The arcade will go, its little used, takes up a lot of resources and the games are all available elsewhere.

The portal, personally I never quite saw the point. I'm for killing it off. It adds a lot of complication 'under the hood'

The LTP, I am solidly of the opinion it should have its own site or at least its own sub-domain (eg ltp.oneguyfrombarlick as the zip file is now) and it should be 'real' html that is easy to move to another place if need be and again isn't held to ransom by an sql database. Its basically that now on the archive site now, but its incomplete. I lack the artistic temperament to make websites look good, I would like somebody to take that on if at all possible. I can give assistance gaining access to the existing html if need be. Having Stanley put a lot of work in to make it a series of posts on the forum doesn't sit well with me. Stanley put a lot of work into it already, it needs to be preserved for the future and not tied to a particular piece of bulletin board software (phpbb in this case). Static html all the way for me.

Behind all this is the worry of OGFB being a conservative lot (Doc warned me and I've gathered the same myself) and we don't like change. I don't want everyone up in arms and I don't want people to 'take their ball home' . I've enough miles on the clock to have grown out of wars and confrontation, I like a quiet life.....

One thing I'd like is for the mods to tidy up the forums, there are forums with nothing in which can go. I don't think we need a seperate forum for every conceivable subject either. A single thread with a broad title would serve just as well for the little attention they receive. You may of noticed about 80% of the posts is in general chat, simple..........

Please don't get bogged down in bickering about finances and donations, its not that important.

Heres to OGFB and the future.

I quite like using the Portal page to get latest postings ( date ordered ) , rather than the Forum page which does not give date of latest posting , only the memorable colour code for unread posted topics. There is stuff on the Forum page thats probably only of interest to either admins or highly nosey users ( bit like me but I can live on other boards without knowing whom is/was online , whom has just joined , etc ).

Other website forums have had problems with picture posting via passwords troubling the integrity of the boards as a whole , external hosting is ok as long as they dont go the way of some now defunct picture hosts.

Has the Tab Logo ( I forget its name ) changed again from the OGFB square ?

Pluggy, I agree with everything you say even though I don't understand some of it. Pics are no problem as long as members without a host site have an easy route to send a pic to a moderator to post. I do that already and on the original site we had to moderate the pics before they appeared on the site as a form of censorship and that worked. I assume that there would still be some differentiation in topics? Some are very well populated and would be degraded by unconnected posts. Think of family matters which is serious stuff. Stanley's View is another case, I am responsible for what is said in the articles and I'd like that to keep its identity.
As for me re-posting the LTP, no problem and I understand it better than anyone else. How it is routed and where it is held is up to you. All I want is somewhere I can put it up without having to start running a website myself. I am better placed than anyone else to put the time in and would enjoy doing it so stop worrying about loading me, I am still capable!
Not too sure about altering 'I am a donor' to 'I am a freeloader', like poking a stick into a wasp nest. Just have a sticky topic that only you can post in where you flag up the state of the archive and leave it to the members who pay. You should arrange a surplus to go to you each year. Important to set a date when the subs are due, say anniversary of the reload of the site in January. There will be no difficulty about making sure you have enough funds.
Hosting is entirely up to you, only thing I would say is err on the side of too much capacity on the server, it never hurts to be working well within the limits and the site will run more reliably.
One thing that is essential is to put a sticky post up as soon as you have decided on exactly what you are going to do and inform everyone. Not everybody reads this thread and if you want to carry everyone with you, tell them clearly what is going to happen and make it as seamless as possible. (One suggestion, the banner pics, particularly the one of Meg sat on the wall i9n the snow are very important to the 'feel' of the site. The walking man is popular as well.) At the same time make it clear that many of the decisions that have to be made are yours and not open to debate. The choice is clear, we either simplify the site to make it reliable or in the end it fails. There will be no prolonged debate.
As for the old archive and all the problems associated with it, my advice is to abandon it. I know its a shame but trying to get it back up is a constant drain. My perception from talks with you and Doc is that it is in such a big mess that it can never be satisfactory. Cut the knot, ditch it and lets go forward from here. OG is a good concept and successful, compare it with the majority of similar sites. The name is a brand now and well known and it will build again to where it was 18 months ago. Our business is getting it right now, making it efficient and getting down to repopulating the present archive by reposting stuff we hold ourselves. The Rare Texts is a good example, there is material on there not available anywhere else, another section that should be preserved.
In short, I am in favour of surgery and I think the othjer moderators are as well. Let's get on with it!

I for one will be sad to see the old archive go, it has a lot of stuff in it, but if it has to go so be it. I don't have a problem with re establishing the site on a simplified platform although I do agree with Stanley's aspects on branding with the banners etc. Some of the threads will not work without images so some form of easy uploading for the members is a must. I think having to submit to a moderator may put some people off and this would not allow anyone to create a post which relied on multiple pictures.

I think if the site is re-built on a simpler phpbb platform we should start by retaining all the Categories, Forums and Sub-forums that already have content. Pluggy is right in that a lot of the pre-established sub-forums have never attracted any content and as such they should go to create a more slimmed down site. We should build up as required and to this end we should have a thread for all members to suggest or ask for additional sections that they may require. The existing General Chat & Miscellaneous is too broad ranging and is all encompassing, some of the threads are good enough to stand on their own legs and should maybe be split off into other sub-forums.

Management of Category/Forum/Sub-forums should be left to the moderators, given access to that particular feature of the Admin CP as it was until recently when the permissions disappeared.

Another area that moderators should be able to edit is the actual membership list so that when we expel, ban or otherwise toast a baddie, spammer or troll, we should be able to eradicate them from the membership as well. No point doing half a job there. As it is at the moment, all that we have had to ban - well over 150 are still there with all their links in the membership list. We constantly sweep up but can't empty the bin.

A meet up with all the moderators to discuss the crossing of the t's and dotting of the i's will be very useful.