SHED MATTERS 2

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Stanley
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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Here's the gap under the bed at the back.

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It gets worse, here's my yesterday version of a fitted stud I could live with. The committee were quite right. I chopped the old studs of with a cold chisel, mounted the shaper on the two front studs and bolted it down and then used a transfer punch to put the revised centres on the plate. Then drilled and tapped them and fitted two new studs.

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No problem fitting the shaper back on the studs, it just dropped on so I tightened the nuts down. That's a lot better, how it should have been in the first place. It won't be reproaching me every time I use it now....

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This was the next little problem that needed sorting out. The holder for the cutters is made to be a snug fit on 3/8" square HSS stock and all mine is 10MM. Not much different but quite enough to stop a fit so I eased the aperture with a file until 10mm stock is a snug fit

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The next matter that needed attention was the fact that the securing bolts on the tee nuts were too high and anything longer then the vice fouls on them before it's flat on the bed of the vice. No messing about, off with the washer, out with the angle grinder and I ground it down until it was below the level of the vice.

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I'd honed the cutting edge of the 3/8" tool and found a piece of box section alloy that won't get used for anything, I decided to start my shaper education on something soft and easy!
It was a doddle... the tool cuts well, the motion is easy, the full stroke is 6" (This workpiece is 5") and the finish with a less than ideal tool is OK. A very satisfying morning. My next move is to cut some section for tee nuts in mild steel.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by micktoon »

Hi Stanley, glad to see you have the shaper working and also glad you re did them studs :grin: , you could not have lived with them !. I liked the photo Kev took too, you look quite content with the shed in that photo now you have the last item on your whish list in place.
I am looking forward to seeing more tests with the shaper.
Cheers Mick
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

I'm enjoying the Adept on more levels than one. First I was right about the quality of the design, it's a beautifully made tool and requires surprisingly little effort. Second, it's archaeology because I am in the same position as the old engineers in the 19th century when they developed the planing machine, they were in an entirely new field because up to then the only way they had to generate a flat surface by machine was a cross feed on the lathe and the old machines weren't as accurate as ours and this was very difficult to achieve. That's why hand work was used until the mid 19th century. Lastly because there are things you can do with this motion that are impossible any other way even today, like making some dead end cuts.
I'm going to keep practising with the alloy today, I want to make a round nose cutter and see how that performs....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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The top slide has loosened up with use so my first job was to nip it up and make sure it was a shake free as possible.

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Next job was to make a round nose cutter and hone it to make sure it was really sharp.

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I tried again on the aluminium and got a fairly heavy cut but the surface was a bit raggy... But that's alloy for you...

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I forgot to mention, I had a furtle and sorted some 10mm HSS out....

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I decided to get some mild steel in the shaper, make some tee nuts. So I found a piece of 3/4" bar and didn't even think about cutting it by hand, straight into the vice on Mrs McMaster!

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I got everything set up and did one complete pass over the face of the bar. It was not a good finish, it was hard work and I found that the cross slide was slightly loose.

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I gave the cutter a bit of thought and decided that what it needed was more hook so I sharpened and honed it again...

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The adjusting screws for the cross slide gib are a bugger to get to but I managed it after a bit of a struggle.

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It was getting near to knocking off time but I took a few cuts with the resharpened cutter and what a difference! Far easier to make a cutting stroke, a cleaner cut and the cross slide is about right now I think. I told you this lot was going to be a learning curve... I think I've made some progress this morning.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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My mind was full of shapers last night as I dropped off to sleep! Not simply because I have a new toy but because I had stepped back 150 years and was going through the same learning process that the early pioneers followed as they struggled to perfect the process. See THIS Article on planers.
Until the planing machine was perfected, the only way to get plane flat surfaces (almost always on Cast Iron) was chipping with a chisel and then scraping dead flat. Initially the aim was to be able to generate truly flat surfaces for surface plates used for accurate measuring but as the technology improved large castings could be planed, think of slides for lathes, on steam engine beds for crosshead slides etc. This was why the first inventors kept their efforts secret and we know so little about the initial development of the tool. It was a big commercial advantage as hand scraped surface plates were very expensive.
The first planers were just like my shaper, hand operated and relatively small. They had to solve all the problems like the clapper box to allow the tool to tilt backwards on the return strike, on the first machines that rubbing on the cut destroyed the cutting edge. A very simple idea but totally new, my shaper has exactly the same mechanism. So as I stumbled through my experiments yesterday I was doing exactly what the pioneers did, in other words, the purest form of industrial archaeology. For a historian, that's magic!
The technique is obsolescence now, milling machines have largely taken over but there are still some applications where they are used. The biggest planer I ever saw was in a factory at Leeds making Centurion tanks. It was big enough to take three tank bodies at once to plane the turret rings dead flat! My little Adept Number Two is a tiddler and hopelessly outmoded but it's fulfilling all my expectations and is a joy. Don't worry about the price Mick, it's worth every penny just to have the capability and the opportunity to tread that path from 150 years ago....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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More playing out. I decided to try Trefolex as a cutting lubricant and it worked well as I fini9shed off the pass with the round nose tool.

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It didn't take long, cut well and gave a good finish.

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I wanted to make a square cut down each side 1/8" wide and 1/4" deep so I sharpened a cutter....

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I decided to try taking the cut down full width, I'd made a mistake here and my cut was 1/4" wide when it should have been 1/8"! Never mind, it was a good trial, far too wide a cut....

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Alolo went well when I reduced the cut until I got a bot too ambitious and broke the edge on my cutter so I had to re-sharpen. With hindsight I got it slightly wrong because even though it cut it was rough but I pressed on...

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I got diverted at this point and started looking for threaded rod and nuts to finish the tee nuts off....

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I moved over to the other side and it cut beautifully, I have the cutting angle just right. I was getting knackered at this point and decided to stop. What I have learned this morning is that the cutting edge is vitally important. I've always said that the reason why the old treadle lathe turners were so good at sharpening tools was that if they didn't get it right they paid in sweat. That's what happened to me this morning. We live and learn!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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I was in two minds this morning, whether to go on with my adventure or give my shoulder a rest. This repetitious movement has woken one of the old war wounds in my shoulder but then I decided the exercise was good for me and carried on. Two more refinements this morning, first is that you can't spend too much time in making sure the cutting edge is perfect. With a power driven tool this isn't quite as important but when the motive power is breeches arse steam you soon learn that you can take a lot of the effort out of the cut. If you look closely you'll see some almost perfect shavings of metal laid on the top of the vice. When they come off like that you know you are somewhere near. I also tightened the slide on the depth motion as well, it needs to be far tighter than say the cross slide on the lathe.
I also discovered something else. If you have your cutting tool too long it fouls the nut above the clack box and you don't get a full backing off at the end of the stroke and this leads to rubbing of the tool on the return and dulls the edge. So I needed to put that right.

Three bleeding obvious images for you but just as well as a reminder.

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HSS is tough stuff and the best way I know to cut it is to nick it deeply on the grinder, set in the vice, wrap a cloth round it to catch any flying splinters and give it one smart thump with a heavy hammer, don't tap it! Then grind the sharp edges off the break.

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Another thing I had noted was that if you didn't give the tool a good rounded clearance at the back of the edge it could catch on the back end of the stroke and not readily allow the clack box to reset. So I rounded it off and used a very fine round stone to make sure the edge was perfect.

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All this takes time but there's no rush! At knocking off time (I was a bit late starting this morning....) I was on the second series of cuts to get the shoulder to the right depth and it was cutting nicely. I know some would say I'm making a meal of this but it's a totally different ball game and well worth a bit of time and trouble. My last task was to get a small plastic container while I was in the town so that I can keep all the cutters and small tools that go with the shaper together....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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Still learning! I finished off the side cut in no time after the adjustments I made yesterday to the cutter and tightening the slide on the top feed. Then I put the round nosed cutter in and took two passes over the top to get rid of the mistake I made....

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I have the top profile right, now for the sides and the bottom.

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I'm not as masochistic as you thought! Into the VM to take the sides off and reduce the bottom.

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In terms of time and effort this must be the most expensive bit of stock in the world! Ready now for drilling and tapping and slicing into five tee nuts. Never mind! It's been a fascinating exercise, well worth the effort and I think I now understand the shaper!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Tripps »

If a picture is worth a thousand words - then a video clip could be worth a million. I'm still unclear how this new gadget does what it does. :smile:
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Bodger »

Tripps watch this it will give you an idea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBG652_9wl0
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Tripps »

Thanks for that - now I see it. I had the idea that it was driven by the lathe.That's the bit I didn't get, changing rotary to reciprocal. Now I see why his shoulder was aching. :smile:
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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Useful video Bodge. Very similar to the Adept but heavier built. Sorry I hadn't made it clearer David. In the days before powered milling machines this and turning on the face plate in the lathe were the only mechanical methods of making a flat surface and old lathes were never dead accurate across the face. That's why things like small surface plates which had to be made by hand were so expensive, only the most skilled men could do a good job and it was very slow. When you got to something too big to get into the lathe like an engine bed, making a flat surface for a crosshead slide was impossible that's why they used circular trunk slides which could be bored.

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here's one on a big Yates and Thom engine at Leigh Spinners.

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Hard to make out because of the pigeon shit but the tail slides were bored as well, this support runs in a curved bed which is a segment of a circle. Funnily enough this was a late engine and they could have used a planer but stuck to boring. When Johnny made his big lathe in 1956 he used a shaper to make the flat components of the saddle and even now, given a big enough machine, a shaper or plane is a better method of getting a good plane surface then an old milling machine. Modern mills and grinding machines have overcome this of course but my shed hasn't got these.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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Just popped in to let you know I am giving my shoulder a rest and writing some articles.... Normal service will be resumed tomorrow!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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LINK
Have a look at this.... And you thought I had shed fever!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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Finishing the tee nuts. All drilled and tapped, 4 for 12mm and one for 1/2"Whitworth because they just happened to be the crewed rods nd bolts I had about me.

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The end result. Five of the most labour intensive tee bolts in history! Never mind, well worth the effort because I now understand the shaper. I had some time so I went through all the other tee nuts on the shelf that holds the holding down tackle. Funny how they don't get attention over the years.

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After sorting the shelf out I was left with these two odd tee nuts which don't fit anything, they are too wide in the head. So I popped them into the shaper, set the straight edged cutter up and started to reduce the rib. Almost no effort required and I shall finish them tomorrow and drill and tap them for 3/8" studs so they match the rest of the main set.
A nice morning, nothing strenuous and another corner of the shed cleared up and sorted out. Things could be much worse.
John has mailed me the drawings for the cylinder, I am looking at them and mulling them over.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by micktoon »

Hi Stanley, looks like you are getting the hang of the shaper and having fun too, glad to see a nice old bit of machinery getting used again.
I wonder what you will decide now you have the drawings from John.
Cheers Mick
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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The design is a pillar mounted vertical engine, not a favourite of mine but they are good castings and I'm letting it float round in my head. The design committee will come up with something eventually.... Could be a pump.... Who knows. I love puzzling things like that out.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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Not a lot to report.... I wrote an article this morning and so was late in the shed. I finished off the modification of the tee nuts and then drilled and tapped them both 3/8" Whitworth.

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Finished and back on the shelf with the others. I am now tee nutted up to the hilt! One thing I did while using the shaper was to oil the top slide, amazing how much difference it makes! When you have to drive something by hand you notice these things. That's why the old blokes with the treadle lathes got so good at sharpening tools!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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You may remember that one of the reasons I wanted the shaper was so that I would have the capability of cutting internal keyways in things like gear wheel bosses. My mind has been running round this and I think I have it fairly clear now, I will have to make a nose for the slide that can carry a cutter. Meanwhile, there was one matter on my mind that needed a resolution. Finding a 1/2" BSF nut for the remaining teenut.

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I had an idea that there might be one buried in this jar of odd nuts and bolts, mostly coach bolts, so I tipped it out and while I was looking started sorting the nuts out for the bolts. and separating out the washers and wood screws. It was 9AM before I got in the shed this morning and so I had 90 minutes before knocking off time. It took me that long to get everything sorted. I put all the washers in the washer box, threw the odd woodscrews into the scrap (I have wood screws running out of my ears!) and eventually put all the bolts, each with a nut that fitted, back into the jar.

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By the way.... I found that elusive nut, ran a tap through it and the die down the bolt and we have at least solved that one!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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I's no sooner got in the shed this morning when the smart meter man arrived. Leccy off all morning so we have had an enforced layoff! Normal service tomorrow lads.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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Today's job is to make an extension, a nose, that will fit on the existing cutter and clapper box. It has to hold a 1/4" cutter and be capable of working inside a bore to cut an internal keyway. This is the operation I most wanted to crack when I got the shaper. So the first job was a fag packet drawing with my measurements on it and find a piece of EN8 stock, 1 1/2" diameter.

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Mrs McMaster was called on to cut a 4" length off the stock....

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A last check on my measurements and we're ready for a start.

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Tool touched up and away we go.

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The nose cut down to 1/2" diameter and centred.

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Then I turned it round, cut the exterior down to 1 1/4" and started on the 3/4" bore I want in the end. It's two and a half inches deep so I took my time getting the pilot hole in. EN8 is tough stuff.... This got me to knocking off time.
One interesting thing, the new smart meter is very accurate. None of my work on the machines alarmed it, the scale stayed in the green all the time. By the time I came out I had burned 70p worth of leccy....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Bodger »

Stanley, a few years ago i bought one of these, it comprises a current transformer, transmitter, and a receiver, i have the receiver on my desk and i can see at a glance if a light is left on or if something is running that shouldn't be. Ive found it very useful in reducing and controlling our electricity usage

http://theowlireland.com/owl-ireland-ho ... gy-monitor
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by micktoon »

Hi Stanley , looks like a good mornings work to me, I was just thinking once the shaper is up and running you will be wondering how you ever managed without the shaper and Mrs Mcmaster lol. I am looking forward to seeing the new tool cut a keyway, keep up the good work.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

Bodge, yours must have had better information than my old BG monitor which while useful wasn't as precise as the new one I got with the smart meter. I thought it was faulty yesterday but it came on at 6AM, must go to sleep during the night! They evidently don't cater for early birds like me!
Mick, you're right.... The McMaster saw is brilliant, so easy to use now I've got used to it and hardly moved the leccy use indicator on the new usage monitor that came with my smart meter. As for the shaper and slotting, it's the one machining operation I have never cracked. I've tried the usual methods on the lathe but none of them have worked properly. I've never seen an extension like the one I'm making, it came from the design committee.... I saw a Youtube demo of a bloke who had adapted his shaper but he had done away with the clapper box and didn't get relief on the back stroke. That seems like a big disadvantage to me so I'm making mine so that it fits in the normal way and will lift on the back stroke preserving the cutting edge which I've found is absolutely crucial for good cutting. We'll see if my fag packet design works very soon! I'm looking forward to a trial run.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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I started the morning by boring the socket for the nose with an 11/16" drill but hit the strangest problem. Though sharp and seemingly OK it jammed in the hole every time I tried to get it to cut. In the end I discarded it, found another drill and cleaned the hole out with no problems at all. The only thing I noticed about the drill was that it was strongly magnetised....
Then I bored the hole very carefully, I wanted a good fit on the nose. i got there in the end and it's such a good fit you have to force the nose in the hole against the air pressure! By the way, I used the carriage stop I made for the first time....

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Close of play. A piece of 1/4" HSS and a 1/4" BSF set screw. I found a shorter set screw after I did this pic.... That's enough for this morning, we aren't on piece work!
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