OneGuyFromBarlick

Listening to Inside Science I heard a Birmingham University research scientist describing the surface she created which kills bacteria in seconds. She's now `re-purposing the technology to kill the virus that causes Covid-19.....so that the technology could be used to create antiviral PPE that can be re-used rather than thrown away.' That sounds good - but I was shocked at the beginning when she was asked if it worked on viruses and she said they didn't already know. Why not? Her response was that hospitals have only been interested in bacteria such as antibiotic resistant types like MRSA. But what about norovirus which puts hospitals into lockdown, causes a lot of illness and delays people's treatment or release? (My dad got his dementia after being in a norovirus lockdown.) And it's largely spread by surface contamination. I can't understand why the researchers haven't already included norovirus in their work and why the hospitals haven't been pushing for them to do so.

T, not heard. Is it something to do with Copper? That has qualities effectively electrical, ions break up the surface coating membranes of the single cell entities. I presume salt based wet treatments do much the same - and more quickly if in sodium or chorine consituants ( though I understand there is one bacteria? that had resistance - as in it took longer to break down meaning it was a viable infection - due to the chemical arrangement of protective membrane - to Chlorine ).

At what point does Copper become (if at all) saturated ? I presume for viruses on surfaces it is those surfaces most often touched and those most inaccesible for cleaning that are a problem

Know nothing about these antibacterial things but I thought it was positively charged silver ions (Ag+) that killed bacteria and some viruses, Florence Nightingale and all that. That's the limit of my knowledge, over to the brains trust....

i know that research has shown that copper is quite good when virus samples are measured over time. Silver too but that might be too expensive. Gold may just be easy to clean. I am not sure about Aluminium, that seems to have no effect compared to plastic or anything else. We know some woods have anti-bacterial qualities, not sure about virus effects though on woods, supposedly the latest bejing outbreak was from a contaminated chopping board.

I have questioned where do all the viruses go in the summertime ( and i suppose - why do they return?) , do they indeed for airborne ones pass away in warmer sunnier days ? and is the amount of infection reduction in anyway in the uk related to that?

I'm now eligible to be in a bubble. I think so anyway. I've a choice of two sons to join in with. That is of course they want to 'bubble' with me.

1. No chance whatever. He has played by the rules, but his circumstances are such that in my opinion, I would be at high risk.

2. He would probably be safe as he has been locked down at home, as have all his family nearly as long as I have. I rang him today to tell him that I wouldn't be 'bubbling'. I thought he'd be pleased / bitterly disappointed. He didn't know what I was talking about.

He knows now, and agrees with me that wait and see is the best action. I know they have to start somewhere, but just because someone is a close relative doesn't mean they won't infect me. 'They' are now talking down the risk of airborne transmission - no doubt as a prelude to reducing the nominal 2m separation down to 1m before the entire economy collapses.

Journalist pressure again. Why not 1 m , other countries do I m why are we doing 2 bla bla bla.

We may find there's a problem in reducing the social distancing down to one metre. In the past studies have shown that there are human conventions which we tend to follow simply because we like our own personal space. Under the heading Proxemics The Social distance for interactions among acquaintances
Close phase – 4 to 7 feet (1.2 to 2.1 m)
Far phase – 7 to 12 feet (2.1 to 3.7 m)

By insisting on a one metre distances we could be forcing people into situations that are conventionally unacceptable. This will never do. Standards have to be maintained. This bubble must be pricked as quickly as possible.

Sue wrote: ↑13 Jun 2020, 20:14 Journalist pressure again. Why not 1 m , other countries do I m why are we doing 2 bla bla bla.

I'd see it as not from journalists, but rather from economists and the chancellor?. I read that the risk of infection in a crowd at 1m separation is 13% Whereas at 2m separation, it reduces to 3%. Take your pick.

Proxemics - that's a new word to me. who'd have thought someone was devoting their academic life to it. We should be grateful to them.

plaques wrote: ↑13 Jun 2020, 20:31 Close phase – 4 to 7 feet (1.2 to 2.1 m)

Doesn't that mean that in normal interaction, people don't usually need to get closer than 1.2 m so if separation was reduced to 1m minimum, fairly normal life could be resumed? Hope so.

I

Dead right David and I do the same. My only exception is Mick and Susan but even then we distance. They have tested clear after having it and have got no evidence of transmission from the clients they work with who are vulnerable. If they did we would stop immediately. Mind you, Susan did give me a hug and a kiss as they left.... (Mick didn't bother.

We walked past a Subway outlet today, that has a small indoor seating area. Reading the notice on the window, it appears that if you choose to sit inside and eat, you must scan the barcode taped to the table, then upload it to the track and trace website, putting in the time you arrived and left the table. They will contact you if it comes about that there was a coronavirus case nearby at the time you were eating.
What a lot of effort to go to. What if you don’t have a smart phone?
I couldn’t work out if this is a different thing to the COVID APP, which hubby has on his phone, that will alert you if you have been in close proximity to a positive person for more than 15 mins.
It is all getting too complicated isn’t it? Forget any kind of eating out...

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/covid-cases-uk

Positive news for the North, or is it negative !

Proxemix, What made me think of this was my own personal talking distance is about 4 ft. There was a chap at work who was determined to get as near as possible. The receiver used to back up until they were out of the office and down the corridor. Normal life for strangers is conducted at a distance, personal close relations are a lot nearer. What we are talking about is really the economics of businesses, pubs, restaurants, hairdressers, transport etc who can't function at 2 metre distances. All boils down to economics.

Whyperion wrote: ↑13 Jun 2020, 15:44 T, not heard. Is it something to do with Copper?

No. Copper and silver both have antibacterial properties and possibly antiviral but this research uses a high-tech nitriding method to impregnate the surface with silver. It's been tested successfully against bacteria for an extended period in the operating theatre and toilet of an RN Fleet Auxiliary ship. Further details at these three links: 1. Research 2. News 3. Nitropep

1 metre v. 2 metre. I can't see the point in social distancing at 1 metre - we might as well just abandon the concept altogether. When this pandemic began I stressed the danger of coronavirus transmission by contact, person-to-person or-person-to-surface-to-person rather than via the air. I was glad to hear this being stressed again on Inside Science recently. It's going to become critical as the shops etc open again.

The distancing effectiveness depends on the environment as well. 2m or 1m outside is a totally different kettle of fish to the same distances indoors where the air circulation is mainly captive with lots of surfaces that could be contaminated regardless of cleaning regimes. I won't be going into a pub, cafe or restaurant for quite a while yet. We are hoping to go camping up to Robin Hoods Bay in August but this still may not be possible. Shared toilets and shower blocks will be a bit of a nightmare for the site owners I would imagine. I will have to have a talk with Chris on the radio. He and his brother Paul run Knight Stainforth campsite. I wonder how he sees it panning out?

We had already had to switch two Cornwall cottage holidays to next year and now we've lost the forthcoming September one. It's been taken off the market by the owners, an elderly couple, because they're having to move to it themselves. My view is that we wouldn't have been able to go anyway in September. We wouldn't be able to comfortably and safely visit the usual places and it wouldn't be relaxing. Still too much risk, especially for me.

Tripps wrote: ↑13 Jun 2020, 19:33 no doubt as a prelude to reducing the nominal 2m separation down to 1m before the entire economy collapses.

Down to 1m.

"Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.”

Tripps wrote: ↑13 Jun 2020, 23:23

Sue wrote: ↑13 Jun 2020, 20:14 Journalist pressure again. Why not 1 m , other countries do I m why are we doing 2 bla bla bla.

I'd see it as not from journalists, but rather from economists and the chancellor?. I read that the risk of infection in a crowd at 1m separation is 13% Whereas at 2m separation, it reduces to 3%. Take your pick.

Proxemics - that's a new word to me. who'd have thought someone was devoting their academic life to it. We should be grateful to them.

plaques wrote: ↑13 Jun 2020, 20:31 Close phase – 4 to 7 feet (1.2 to 2.1 m)

Doesn't that mean that in normal interaction, people don't usually need to get closer than 1.2 m so if separation was reduced to 1m minimum, fairly normal life could be resumed? Hope so.

I

The journalists have been asking this question for weeks. Possibly economics driven , but most of the changes we have seen good and bad were pushed by the media first.

I stumbled across this just now. Described as a 'Quarantine Rave' Daisy Nook

The name means a lot to me - the fair on Good Friday was a major event in the year for us. Fond memories. LS Lowry liked it too Daisy Nook Lowry

My point is that splitting hairs between 1m and 2m separation, wherever the pressure comes from, is academic when people behave like that - which they did yesterday.

It was reported on he news at lunchtime that it would be government ministers who made the final decision about the next step of social distancing and not the medics, that's alright then!

Tripps , its not splitting hairs it makes a big difference, as for the ones who break the advice, it is the minority. My issue is that whatever the UK does, the implication by media is that other countries do it different, do it better. In this case I think we do it better!

1M or 2M? Light a candle, stand 1M from it and blow. Now stand 2M from it and blow and notice the difference in how much impact you have on the flame.

I am not certain why pubs and cafes cannot operate with people in garden areas. The cleaning up afterwards is going to be time and human resource intensive. They are going to need financial support. I still think that VAT on Alcohol on tinny take-aways needs to be 25 to 33%, drink in with a meal 5% to get the hospitality sector less unviable. As England has not sufficiently eliminated Covid-19 the steps Australia say is taking are probably not suitable in the future till at least end of July if statistics indicate things are not increasing.

Bubbling. Anyone keeping a list of Covid-19 Words ?

WHO says 1m, UK Science indicates 2m(in sustained internal locations), assumes all toilets, changing rooms are bleached down etc. , Given that WHO had suggested a report that Covid-19 might have been in China indicated before December , going back to August. Using the search word spike the one in August could have been OC43- that we think might be around in UK pre-christmas, but there is a mini-peak just before the main Covid-19 confirmed date, which I find interesting.

Coronavirus: Could social distancing of less than two metres work? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52522460

I'm sticking to 2M for now, I wear a face covering in the shops (thanks Sally), been working from home since March 12th (consider myself lucky to have a job) and don't do public transport. Probably need to do a bit more exercise, I'm a fair weather walker so I'll be getting a bit more mileage in as it's now warm.

There are still far too many unknowns about Covid-19 so will be waiting for someone, with the relevant qualifications and data, to tell me it's OK to return to some sort of normality. Fortunately me and P seem to get along OK, the cruise we had booked for her 60th this year won't happen which put a bit of a damper on things. Plans are afoot to try again for our 40th anniversary next year, I'm not holding my breath but I'm quietly hoping it'll happen. At present I'm trying my best to avoid reading anything in the media...

Me too, 2m for me, no public transport and as few shops as possible. We have a river cruise booked for our 50 th next year, fingers crossed. Meanwhile we are still trying to get our money back for our lost Crete holiday. We are trying via the credit card company who want proof the plane did not fly No one is responding to our emails!. Meanwhile they have our money, and will probably go bust taking it with them. The travel company are not responding either.