POLITICS CORNER

[PanBiker]

Problem is, all the major parties are frightened of losing the first past the post system we have now. It's generally a YoYo job between Tory and Labour with more of a leaning to the Tories as of course Socialism is an extremely nasty ideology to be avoided at all costs. Present Labour are about as far right as you could go without being a Tory.

All the smaller parties fully support some form of PR as it would add more balance to the chamber.

You all know my views, two party adversarial politics a couple of sword lengths apart is no longer any way to run a country! New chamber in the round is required with proper modern facilities. Accommodation for the members through the week, small flat with all facilities. flat rate charge to each elected member for its use. Build it in the middle of the country so it's fairer in travelling for all parts of the country. PR system and compulsory voting. Fine those that can't be bothered on a sliding scale for multiple offences. Smart Photo ID National Identity Card to claim your vote. All of this is doable if there is a will, 30 - 40% turnout should not determine who runs the country.

[Tripps]

Meanwhile - in National Harbour Maryland, at this mysterious event CPAC, (who's payng for all their bus fares and dinner money?) which is giving Liz Truss and Nigel Farage such a blast of publicity - look who else has turned up - the President of Argentina, Javier Milei. He even upstages the Donald who doesn't like him getting up close and personal, and keeps pushing him away.

Make Argentina Great Again

PS Meanwhile in Rochdale - George Galloway's party is now firm favourite at 1/3. "Labour" is now available at 2/1. Looks like instructions have been given. Bellowing 'from the river to the sea' continually seems to have done the trick.

[Stanley]

I'll vote for all of that Ian and close down the bars as well. Why should MPs be allowed to drink in their place of work? They're running the country, breathalyse them just as you would a driver.
See THIS for the BBC report that caught my attention.
The deputy prime minister has declined to say whether Lee Anderson's comments were Islamophobic and said the MP would have kept his role had he apologised. On Saturday Mr Anderson was suspended as a Conservative MP after refusing to apologise for saying London Mayor Sadiq Khan is controlled by "Islamists". Oliver Dowden told BBC One's Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg that Mr Anderson was not "intending to be Islamophobic". Labour has renewed its criticism of the Tory party's response. In a letter to the prime minister, Labour said it was right to suspend Mr Anderson "after his disgusting racist and Islamophobic remarks". Mr Khan, mayor of London, has already said the comments were "Islamophobic, anti-Muslim and racist" and that they "pour fuel on the fire of anti-Muslim hatred."
What I can't understand is how a foul mouthed individual like Anderson ever got to be deputy chairman of the Party. Was Sunak afraid of him?

[PanBiker]

Meet the Candidate tonight at the Civic Hall. That is the Labour Party PPC, Jonathan Hinder. Starts 7pm.

[Stanley]

That's my bedtime Ian!
Have a look at THIS BBC assessment by Chris Mason of the present situation. I think it's a pretty fair summary.
"What we are seeing is a noisy, angry mess on three fronts and two big central questions: what is it legitimate to say about different communities or religious groups?"
Whatever the result of the ballot on Thursday, the debate on the result is going to produce even more discord. Deep Joy!

[PanBiker]

For the record, the event was very well attended. Probably about 50 turned up. Jonathan did 15 minutes introduction of himself and what his priorities would be if elected. Then open to the floor for questions. A very broad range of subjects brought up and good debate. He did not shy away from any of the questions put forward. Event lasted until about 8.30 and gave opportunity to meet 1 to 1 with anyone who had further questions. Al in all a very successful evening.

[Stanley]

He can rely on my vote. Much as I distrust Starmer and his brand of politics I have to support Labour in a national election even if it is on historical grounds.
See THIS for yet another disgraced MP that could possibly trigger another by-election.
MPs have approved a motion to suspend Blackpool South MP Scott Benton from the Commons for 35 days. Mr Benton's suspension exceeds the 10-day threshold that triggers a recall petition and potentially a by-election. The ex-Tory, who is now an independent, broke Commons rules when he was caught by the Times offering to act on behalf of gambling investors. An independent panel upheld a decision by the Standards Committee, which Mr Benton had appealed against. It said there had been "no procedural flaw" in the process. Mr Benton has previously said he was "deeply disappointed" and claimed there had been a "lack of integrity" throughout the process, which was "prone to regular leaks at every stage". He said he has continued to serve his constituents. The motion means Prime Minister Rishi Sunak faces the prospect of another difficult by-election.
I might have said this before..... Our political system seems to be broken. I have never seen anything anywhere near as bad as the present situation and the global news does nothing to help.

[PanBiker]

He can rely on my vote. Much as I distrust Starmer and his brand of politics I have to support Labour in a national election even if it is on historical grounds.

It's partially that for me even though I am fairly well involved being admin of the electoral database for the CLP that contains the electoral role and canvas data. You can't influence any change if you are not a member. As such I can still formulate motions that can wend their way from branch to National level, including those that may influence policy. Members can also have their say on internal elections for delegates to party committees and organisational groups. Can't do any of that if you jack in, alter the leanings of the party from inside.

[Tripps]

Of the 15 members listed to ask questions at today's Prime Minister's Questions I noticed that one was from a Labour MP, one from an SNP MP, and thirteen were from male Conservative MP's.

Who chooses them? Perhaps it's Mr Speaker, who has gone a bit shy today.

[PanBiker]

Its supposed to be questions to the PM so should be weighted to the opposition parties not the back slapping affair that it is. "Does the PM agree with me" ad infinitum, well, at least for the majority of the session. Get out of jail free card for Roland Rat.

[Stanley]

I agree with you Ian and that's the reason that lies behind THIS report this morning of a warning from Mr Sunak that we are descending into 'mob rule'.
Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has warned police chiefs of a "growing consensus that mob rule is replacing democratic rule". He wants more robust police responses that he says are needed to protect politicians and democratic processes. This includes an "immediate response" from police to intimidatory protest at MPs' homes. But human rights group Amnesty International says the PM "wildly exaggerates the issue".
Tom Southerden, Amnesty International UK's Law and Human Rights Director, warned fundamental rights were being eroded. "Talk of 'mob rule' wildly exaggerates the issue and risks delegitimising the rights of peaceful protest," he said. "Freedom of expression and assembly are absolutely fundamental rights in any free and fair society. "The UK has undergone a major crackdown on protest rights in recent years, with peaceful protest tactics being criminalised and the police being given sweeping powers to prevent protests taking place."
Mr Sunak might be right about there being a greater number of public protests but where he is wrong is in not acknowledging that the reason for these protests is that the public perception is that on many matters there is a vacuum in politics, our politicians aren't governing the country but arguing between themselves. What he is seeing isn't an attempt at 'mob rule' but the public trying to get our leaders to address the deficiencies that are quite obvious in the way we are being governed. His solution is not to remedy the deficiencies in the way the country is run but to impose more and more draconian rules on the public to stop them having their say.
By the way Ian, I agree with you about remaining a paid up member of the Party, that's why I still pay my subs every month!

[Tripps]

It was the budget setting meeting in Oldham last night. The meeting was chaired by the Deputy Mayor - not sure where the Mayor was, I'd have expected him to present and in charge. Strong party differences and mention of possible impending bankruptcy a few times. There was some mild fisticuffs, (not sure what it was about, didn't watch it all), and an MOP was forcibly ejected by three men - accompanied by shouts from members in chamber of "leave him alone".

All in all - a lot more entertaining than most of the evening's TV offering.

11.25 pm PS :- Sky are saying from the count, that George Galloway has won in Rochdale.

.

[Whyperion]

He can rely on my vote. Much as I distrust Starmer and his brand of politics I have to support Labour in a national election even if it is on historical grounds.
See THIS for yet another disgraced MP that could possibly trigger another by-election.
MPs have approved a motion to suspend Blackpool South MP Scott Benton from the Commons for 35 days. Mr Benton's suspension exceeds the 10-day threshold that triggers a recall petition and potentially a by-election. The ex-Tory, who is now an independent, broke Commons rules when he was caught by the Times offering to act on behalf of gambling investors. An independent panel upheld a decision by the Standards Committee, which Mr Benton had appealed against. It said there had been "no procedural flaw" in the process. Mr Benton has previously said he was "deeply disappointed" and claimed there had been a "lack of integrity" throughout the process, which was "prone to regular leaks at every stage". He said he has continued to serve his constituents. The motion means Prime Minister Rishi Sunak faces the prospect of another difficult by-election.
I might have said this before..... Our political system seems to be broken. I have never seen anything anywhere near as bad as the present situation and the global news does nothing to help.

Probably because in years past the kind of shenanigans Mr Benton was (entrapped?) into were fairly well covered up. It has been over the years a drip drip of controversy that has led hopefully to a more robust expectation of greater ethical standards of Members of Parliament and a general codification of those standards that one would trust to led ultimately if not confidence in politicians , at least confidence in the system of the House of Commons (and hopefully Lords - in whatever future format - too). As a thought to this I do wonder if there is a need to increase MPs Salaries - expenses notwithstanding these days in London it is difficult given present taxation and costs to actually live well enough for the hassle on a basic of £100k - see for example chief executive pay for local authorities for an indication, and i think we expect MPs to put in longish, mentally challenging hours (assuming they read their briefing papers well). I do note there is higher pay for ministerial and similar appointments that probably if increased should be less so proportionately (if at all)

[Whyperion]

Mr Galloway is mainly targeting Rochdale's Muslim population, who make up about 30% of the electorate,

Not correct I think BBC - 30% of the population - but about 20% of the electorate / voters. With a low turnout it will still be enough to win though if they are all "whipped" to vote for the same candidate. Being a bit pedantic - there is no "Labour"candidate. Mr Ali is standing as an independent candidate, whatever it says on the ballot paper.

The winner will be Ali or Galloway, but the close betting reflects the uncertainty at the moment. Much can happen next week. Five days is a long time in politics.

As is Five Hours. I am hoping for one of the local independents to have made some impact, this may be the case in Littleborough, rather depends how much some Conservatives are disaffected (who is actually voting Tory at any of these by-elections ?)

[Whyperion]

It would help in selecting MPs if there was a clear definition of what constitutes anti-Semitism. In my book criticising the Israelis for their anti-Palestinian actions is not anti-Semitic.

Precisely Stanley. If you listen to the recording of what Azhar said in the supposedly private Labour Group meeting he did not berate the Jewish people. His remarks were only repeating what at least two well regarded newspapers had also printed about the pre known intelligence put forward by multiple security agencies before the attack.

PB I raised that point elsewhere in the web of confusion , and I think I was told that the "well known intelligence" was unproven and had no substance in fact and thus he was repeating some kind of fake information. This is not helped by a lot of previously respected news sources taking a lot of information effectively from the PR Departments of Hamas / Israel Govt and any kind of fact checking - even finding the first publication of such "news" or build up too it seems difficult - is this a task AI could actually help to identify?-less fog of war more sea of information overload.

[Whyperion]

Rochdale Turnout 40percent roughly. Good Grief there were plenty of candidates to choose from

[Stanley]

George Galloway is the new MP for Rochdale. I was wrong and my Labour Friends in Rochdale must be devastated.
See THIS BBC report.
George Galloway has made it clear he sees his victory as sending a message to Labour - and doesn't think it will stop in Rochdale either. Keir Starmer or someone from the shadow cabinet will likely have to address this result in the morning. It is damaging and it is a headache for the Labour Party - and Galloway is extolling a view that does still exist in that party to some extent. There was less mention of Rishi Sunak in Galloway's victory speech but it wasn't a good result for the Conservative Party either. They would have hoped to have come second here but they were beaten into third place by a local businessman running as an independent. Nor was it a good night for Reform UK either, who picked up fewer than 2,000 votes.
All I have to say is that this result demonstrates that the major political parties have completely lost the plot if an opportunist like Galloway can step in with the equivalent of the Monster Raving Loony Party and steal the result.
We will hear all sorts of 'explanations' later this morning and no doubt assertions that this is not a significant result but I wouldn't be too sure. It could be that this poll is the most accurate reflection yet of what the state of the country actually is.
Expect someone later this morning to tell us that this is the death of Party Politics as we know it. Who knows, they may be right.

[Stanley]

Azhar Ali (on the ballot as a Labour candidate) - 2,402
Mark Coleman (Independent) - 455
Simon Danczuk (Reform UK) - 1,968
Iain Donaldson (Liberal Democrats) - 2,164
Paul Ellison (Conservative) - 3,731
George Galloway (Workers Party of Britain) - 12,335
Michael Howarth (Independent) - 246
William Howarth (Independent) - 523
Guy Otten (Green) - 436
Ravin Rodent Subortna (Monster Raving Loony Party) - 209
David Anthony Tully (Independent) - 6,638

Turnout was 39.7%.

[Tizer]

I keep saying that Britain is heading for a Trump-type takeover. As in the US, many folk here have lost confidence in the usual political parties.

[Tripps]

I deliberately made no predictions, but I'm not at all surprised by the result. It all hinged on where the muslim vote went, and I had no clue as to where the whip had been applied. The fact that an independent came second with apparently no media exposure, tells me that if Labour had chosen a bettter candidate - local man Paul Waugh for example. - and put some work in they could well have won. The swing against Labour was about 45% which is the largest since the war. Quite an achievement. I hear that the postal vote increased, and that's not a surprise, but I can't find by how much. The full result figures from the Council are not yet published. Not very sporting of Mr Ali to be absent from the declaration. His political life is surely now over.

The fact that the egregious Chris Williamson (sacked by Jeremy Corbyn for being too extreme !) is the deputy leader of Galloway's party was well concealed for the whole campaign. He was not allowed to appear or speak until the count was well underway. Hearing his comment then, which involved the word Auschwitz - that was a good idea.

I guess George will have to remove his trilby / fedora hat in the House. he won't like that.

I got this email from my big lad early doors - I shall treasure it. I think it's a first.

" You were spot on! "

[Whyperion]

Slightly disappointed that a local candidate didnt get enough votes.
I am told that the islamic proportion of voters is about 25percent in Rochdale, which is high , but if Galloway's 37percent of votes is proportional to turnout then he has a following beyond that demographic. Sunak and Starmer seem to almost be in denial that the result has happened - The "maiden" speech should be interesting. Blair dismantled anything Labour stood for ( some kind of public control of key industries ) and didnt put back in place some other things that were desired - affordable, decent, public sector housing (choosing to fill chairs of housing associations with friends instead). Not that either as such were economically , and physically always desirable but at least one had some kind of democratic oversight at the local or national level.
none of the reported results I have seen show number of spoilt ballots, inc Rochdale Council , broken down by type, anyone got a source for them ?
Sunak's speech - particulary thinking in England that we all "love our neighbour" clearly has never lived in the real world ( Jesus' Christianity oddly is a command to Love our Neighbour - which is a positive act of will that is difficult to get above our emotions, but might be easier to achieve if other governments elsewhere actually had the same respect for their neighbouring countries). Our masters have generally been better at divide and rule rather than unite, and Sunak telling me who I should think is a terrorist and not support does not think for me (not that I agree with violent terrorist actions , but retain the right to understand when groups of people are oppressed by their adjoining tribes and campaign for at least a discourse on differences and their resolution).
I still think Sunak will go Budget, quick finance bill (to keep income tax on the table) , Election (either early or late May), hoping that there is enough chaos for Labour to deal with to at least minimise tory losses.

Back to Rochdale for a minute, I hear that Galloway's supporters claimed (and got the police out) that Labour were canvassing at the polling stations in one ward, and that voters were being allowed to vote without id ( resulting in one official being dismissed immediately by the council).

[Stanley]

Have a look at THIS report about Sunak's ongoing rant about 'extremists'. Then think back to Thatcher telling us that protest on the streets wasn't 'the British Way'.
The UK must face down extremists trying to "deliberately" undermine the country's "multi-faith democracy", Rishi Sunak has warned. The PM said Islamists and the far-right were "two sides of the same extremist coin" who loathed Britain. He also expressed concern about the regular protests taking place in response to the Israel-Gaza conflict. Mr Sunak spoke at a lectern outside No 10, a set up usually reserved for big announcements such as elections. However, he did not set out details of any new policies.
Sunak is as wrong as Thatcher was. What a Tory Party in trouble sees as extremism is in fact the electorate protesting against the way they are being governed and the policies being pursued by a party totally bereft of ideas. As far as Sunak is concerned, any public protest that voices opposition to his policies is not the voice of the people but an extremist rant. If and when he loses the next election he will blame it on 'extremism' and not accept it is a perfectly normal reaction to lousy polices and at the moment, public disgust with the way Netanyahu's far right government is acting in Gaza. His reference to "forces here at home trying to tear us apart" (if translated) means opposition to Tory Policies. He sees a democratic vote against the Tories as 'Mob Rule'.
Meanwhile, in another part of the parliamentary forest we see THIS BBC account of the National Audit Office's latest statement on the Tory's Rwanda scheme.
The UK will pay at least £370m to Rwanda as part of its plan to relocate asylum seekers there, the government's spending watchdog has revealed. Up to £150,000 will also be paid for each person sent to the east African country over a five-year period. Labour said the new figures in the report by the National Audit Office (NAO) were a "national scandal". However, the Home Office said: "Doing nothing is not without significant costs." A spokesperson said: "Unless we act, the cost of housing asylum seekers is set to reach £11bn per year by 2026. "Illegal migration costs lives and perpetuates human trafficking, and it is therefore right that we fund solutions to break this unsustainable cycle." The NAO report comes after MPs have been calling for greater transparency over the cost of the scheme.
Some of us have been saying for years that as climate changes and disruptive conflicts spread globally food and resources will become more scarce in many parts of the world and historically the response has always been migration and that is what is happening now. It will get worse over time and if the only way we can find to deal with this circumstance is to pay out money to make migrants go away we are soon going to be bankrupt. If we are spending money it should be to help people to survive at home in their own country or to help them resettle here and become an economic benefit to the UK. Ask yourself why so many small business people are former asylum seekers and migrants. They are a potential asset and not simply a problem.

[Tripps]

The phrase 'far right' is used a lot in these recent days. Used regarding Netenyahu's politics, probably justifiably, and mentioned in Sunak's Downing Street address last night. In that context I'd say it was included only to enable him to deny that Islam was the sole problem, which at the moment it probably is. I think this lady, with her curious eyebrows, (to whom I am warming) gives some sense of balance to the job.

Sunak is surely struggling whe he has to mention Nick Griffin as an examplar of the 'far right'. He has been out of the news, and totally without impact or influence for many years. I bet most of the population has never even heard of him. He was elected to the European Parliament by proportional representation which I'd say is a very good argument against it.

I once - in ignorance and innocence - attended, around 1960, a meeting at the Free Trade Hall Manchester, where the main speaker was one Oswald Mosley. I'd say he fits the label 'far right'

[Stanley]

I think you're right about Mosley David.
A funny little fragment of memory has entered my head. I seem to remember being told once that it was Oswald's family that Mosley Street in Manchester is named after..... (That could be unreliable evidence!)

[Stanley]

I think you're right about Mosley David.
A funny little fragment of memory has entered my head. I seem to remember being told once that it was Oswald's family that Mosley Street in Manchester is named after..... (That could be unreliable evidence!)