SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Locked
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 57118
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 24 Aug 2012, 06:32

I decided to dig a little deeper into milling cutters and consulted Tubal Cain. He wrote for Model Engineering and whilst not a nice man (I once had some dealings with him) he knows his stuff. Gave the cutters a 5 degrees primary clearance and chamfered the corners slightly. Big improvement, cut full depth at one pass with no problems.

Image

With careful feed, no blue chips and a clean cut. I should have read the instructions shouldn't I!

Image

On to rounding the corners of the jaws.

Image

This was supposed to be close of play but the management had a funny turn and sent the workforce back into the shed later for another hour.

Image

This was definitely close of play. I could get rid of the rotary table and start thinking about the set up for reducing the webs. Bit of a puzzle that one but I can have a tidy up, strip a shaft out and give it some thought. Problem is holding it tight enough to work on but with no distortion, the offset centres of the bearings make the shaft a bit delicate when it's not supported by four main bearings. There may be a clue in there somewhere!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 57118
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 25 Aug 2012, 05:06

Nowt done yesterday. I'm taking a view on today but think that it might be a good time to write a couple of articles. More thinking time on the shaft......
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

micktoon
Regular User
Posts: 366
Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 21:23
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon » 25 Aug 2012, 07:27

Good morning Stanley, The con rods are looking neat now and it seems like the time spent looking up the cutter sharpening instructions has been time well spent. I hope you manage to come up with a solution to the problems you have encountered ( I am sure you will ).
I have not got much done to my lathe due to one thing and another stopping me getting on with it, all I have managed to get done is to make and attach some jacking points to each end of the lathe cabinet so that it can be raised to either get rollers under it so it can be moved but mainly so that I can jack one end up at a time and push the lathe snug into the wall into a gap between other things. I had been given the idea from another Harrison L5 user on a forum, he has gone one step further and acually made an axel and small wheels as well as the jacking points as he needs to move his lathe quite often.

This is the bits of metal to make the jacking points, I am glad to say I had collected all these bits from my scrapyard visits thinking they looked useful so no cutting involved :grin:

Image

The components were welded together and the two surplus holes welded up.

Image

The new jacking brackers were now tacked into place and checked for the jack fitting under them.

Image

Positions was ok so seam welded the brackets on.

Image

A bolt is added to give something for the jack to grip on , so it wont slip off when the lathe is pulled sideways.

Image

The jack in position, the set up works well and also means the original levelling bolt system is not effected at all.

Image

Cheers Mick.

User avatar
Bodger
Senior Member
Posts: 1191
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:30
Location: Ireland

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Bodger » 25 Aug 2012, 11:52

Mick, a neat job, just a small point, i would have mounted them the other way up. ie. puting the web welding in compression rather than tension !, but then i'm a crap welder. A great refurbishing job by the way. bodger

User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 10129
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by PanBiker » 25 Aug 2012, 12:34

I was going to comment on that too, but I'm no welder either. It just seems to me that the side bits would do a better job on the top with the pressure coming from below. More eloquently put by Bodge above.. I have often wondered how strong a good weld can be made in relation to the original metal, I suppose it will be dependent on a number of factors including of course what makes the difference between a bloke that can weld and one that can't!
Ian

micktoon
Regular User
Posts: 366
Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 21:23
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon » 25 Aug 2012, 13:03

Hi Bodger and Ian , Ummm , good point lads, to be honest I didn't really think about it too much ( or enough maybe :laugh5: ) all I can say is after trying to remove similar welded brackets before I know that they will be far more stronger than needed. When I have had to remove a flat welded tab say like just the horizontal bit of this bracket in the past it will normally snap the metal at the edge of the weld rather than the weld. I think I did it this way more for the looks and neatness without thinking, I think the other way up would be stronger like you say but either way will be way stronger than needed to do the job :grin:

User avatar
Whyperion
Senior Member
Posts: 1837
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 22:13
Location: Stockport, after some time in Burnley , After leaving Barnoldswick , except when I am in London

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Whyperion » 25 Aug 2012, 16:51

A Good weld liquidizes enough metal so that the two objects become one ( with additional small amount of metal introduced as required ) . Impurities in air , bubbles , bits where the metal objects have not quite melted or cooled ( or got too hot ) , can weaken the weld . Not that I am any good at it.. (can braze but its not strong enough- good enough for candlesticks )

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 57118
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 26 Aug 2012, 04:02

Tidy welding, far beyond my capability! Destructive test of welds tears the metal before the weld. As for the machinery shifting, I'm a big pinch bar and lever man! Mind you, jacking points and roller trolleys are handy if you want to move a 40 ton boiler on your own.....

The crankshaft prevailed over the writing yesterday.

Image

The heavy gang moved in and stripped the engine down to get the shaft out. Tip, make sure you have all the parts numbered when you do the strip down.

Image

The compound vice that usually lives on the HM has deeper jaws and less overhang so the shaft fits in it for at least one cut.

Image

Set up under the VM. Thanks to my improvements I know I can take a clean cut faster than on the HM. The 1/2" section HS cutter is between the webs to stop the vice crushing the gap and distorting the shaft.

Image

Did some cutting. Good result, heavy cut and no blue chips! This was enough for one day so close of play.... The fun will come when I do the other cuts with no web there to grip the shaft. I'll meet that one when I get to it. I shall take the other shaft out and take them both through the modification together to save setting up time. Onwards and Upwards!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 57118
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 27 Aug 2012, 05:10

Good day, we have progress.

Image

You live and learn. I found that a full shallow cut across the web shifted metal faster and cooler cutting.

Image

First two cuts done, only 14 to go!

Image

Close of play, but I had one or two thoughts....

Image

I've been thinking about what happens with the next series of cuts once I have no webs to hold. I laid the shaft on the miller bed and found that someone was looking after me! There's enough depth in the oil pocket on the end of the miller bed to allow the shaft to sit square directly on the bed. I can soon make a couple of fixtures for holding the shaft tight without damage. Another thought came to me at the same time. If I take the machine vice off the rotary base and mount it directly on the bed I can lower the cutting head and thus get a more rigid set-up. Why didn't that dawn on me before?
First job this morning will be to strip the shaft out of number 2 engine and do these four cuts on that one while I have the vice set up on the bed. Another thought, why do I have the rotary table under the vice when it's on the HM and then I remembered, The width of the mounting bolts on the vice doesn't allow it to be mounted with the jaws at right angle to the cut so we have to use the rotary element.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 57118
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 28 Aug 2012, 06:01

I was wrong about the orientation of the vice, of course you can! Cracked on yesterday....

Image

Vice lowered and cutting height as well. More rigid set up.

Image

Parked the first shaft in its bearings. It's going to be OK!

Image

The heavy gang moved on to the next engine and ripped the shaft out.

Image

Set up and ready to go. I gave Newton a good laugh by having a good clean up. I hate mucky benches and machines!

Image

This was close of play at dinnertime.....

Image

But... at about 4pm the management had a funny turn and sent the workforce back into the shed to finish the cut and get a straight edge ready for a new set up today.
By the way, the set up is so rigid that I found I could take a 10thou cut on the back traverse. Breaks all the rules but it worked. Another thought for you, do you remember me having to strip the VM down to cure a loose lead nut on the main lead screw? I thought I'd tightened the gib key up as far as it could go but while I was cutting yesterday I found it had bedded in and could take a lot more depth without tightening the traverse, it must have bedded in and I'd never checked it. This was what stiffened the set up enough to allow the cut on the back stroke. You can't beat fiddling about while you're working!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 57118
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 29 Aug 2012, 04:04

Image

Not a lot to report, made a couple of fixtures and got set up. Cutting all morning, we're getting there! I was going to sharpen the flutes on the cutter but as I have more cutters than I can poke a stick at I didn't let myself get diverted and simply put a fresh cutter in. Big improvement!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 57118
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 30 Aug 2012, 04:39

Image

Soon finished the main cuts on the first shaft and cut the excess off the extension in the old-fashioned way. I don't know whether you remember but these shafts are made out of an old piece of shafting and it's tough stuff, at least EN9.

Image

First shaft back in place.

Image

Close of play, a straight edge. Both shafts back in their bearings. A good clean up and a bit of thought. Programme now is to finish the shafts, cleaning up, breaking edges etc. While the shafts are out of the engines I shall make Bodge's flange connection for the propeller shaft, I can make them a good fit by trial and error by offering the shafts up to them. Then a rebuild and make the fitted bolts for the bearings. That could be a good point for writing a few articles for the paper and then into fitting con-rods. Exciting stuff! I have to admit the shafts look a lot more authentic now the webs are cut off. Time has not been wasted!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 57118
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 31 Aug 2012, 05:15

First shaft cleaned up and almost finished the first Bodger Memorial flange..... Quietly away, amazing how much time these small jobs take!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 57118
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 01 Sep 2012, 05:00

Image

Image

Two engines with cleaned up shafts and both fitted with the Bodge Memorial Flange. I have left them blank so that anyone fitting anything to them can make their own connection. I shall clean up today and make the fitted bolts for the crank brasses. (I hope this satisfies the armchair management!)
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Bodger
Senior Member
Posts: 1191
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:30
Location: Ireland

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Bodger » 01 Sep 2012, 07:38

Are the flanges secured by split spring pins ?

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 57118
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 02 Sep 2012, 04:59

No, taper pins so they remain central and are easy to take out if necessary. In full size practice they would be keyed onto the shaft but small keyways are not easy!

Image

Good clean up first and then get set up for small bolt making. The little sizing tool came into its own and the 2BA die was mounted in the tail stock holder. Find some 1/4" stock and away we go!

Image

The threads were cut on a slow speed. If you haven't got a tailstock holder go out and get one! Best way of cutting accurate threads up to about 3" long. Does away with drunken threads completely!

Image

Bolts made and finished. Plenty of length on them, I'll cut to size on the actual fitting. Debated as to whether I needed lock nuts but decided against them because the bolts will be dead tight. The fit is governed by the face of the joint in the brass itself. Don't forget that the bottom brasses are threaded and these bolts are in effect easily removable studs so no chance of any play in the bottom end.

Close of play. No. 1 engine fitted up and ready for con rods. The Bodge flange is fitted, the taper pin will be filed down flush later when I'm sure it doesn't need to come off again. I shall build No. 2 engine up to the same stage today and then take a view. I have to write some articles! No rest for the wicked.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 57118
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 02 Sep 2012, 09:19

Posting early today to clear the decks for as much writing time as possible tomorrow.

Image

This was the main event of the day, both engine brought forward to the point where con-rod fitting and running in is the next job, followed closely by valve timing. We are getting there!
However, knowing me this won't surprise you....

Image

Image

The straight edge included a good clean up, rub the surface plate down, oil it and put a clean tablecloth on. I'm sure a psychologist would have a field day with this but I do like things to be clean and tidy! I work better.
I'll be writing tomorrow so you might get a bit of shed deprivation!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Bodger
Senior Member
Posts: 1191
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:30
Location: Ireland

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Bodger » 02 Sep 2012, 14:18

Stanley, the bananas are reaching their eat by date

micktoon
Regular User
Posts: 366
Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 21:23
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon » 02 Sep 2012, 22:24

Hi Stanley, looks like you have been busy and getting plenty done :grin: , the engines are looking good . I think you deserve a rest to do a bit of writing.

I have been distracted a bit but its all related to the lathe getting done, I have various chucks , vices , rotary table etc lying allover the place, a friend donated some 40mm square box section he got from work so I have been making a shelf unit to store all the chucks etc on.

The used box section.

Image

Cut up into component sizes and laid out on full size drawing on the floor to be tack welded.

Image

The floor is very out of level so I have welded large nuts into the bottom of the legs , this shot shows them just tack welded but they are fully welded and then the shelf unit can be levelled by large bolts.

Image

The finished 'bolt feet' all four can be altered so the frame will sit level with no rocking.

Image

The finished welded frame sitting on the adjustable feet.

Image

I painted a coat of etch primer on the frame with a small roller.

Image

Then two coats of Machinery green , the colour I paint most things :grin: just so things look standard in the workshop.

Image

Then 18mm plywood shelves were self tappered down onto the framework.

Image


I then had some alloy chequer plate off cuts from the scrapyard that almost covered the shelves so drilled and ring shank nailled them to the plywood, the heavy stuff will slide better on this than the wood surface.

Image

The finished self unit in position , the things on it are not in the final places and the rotary table on the trolly by the shelf unit is too heavy for one person to lift. The box section is heavy walled stuff and all joints are fully seam welded around so I think this unit would withstand a nuclear blast :laugh5:

Image
cheers Mick

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 57118
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 03 Sep 2012, 03:47

Looking tidy, when do you install the overhead crane?
Bodge, I like my bananas ripe not hard as bullets!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

micktoon
Regular User
Posts: 366
Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 21:23
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon » 03 Sep 2012, 09:53

Hi Stanley , an overhead crane would be ideal as both the rotary table and the dividing head are super heavy, I think an engine hoist is the closest to a crane I will get to though or just wait till someone else is about to get roped into helping lift :wink:
More sorting things out today so not sure if the lathe will get touched yet........... but watch this space :grin:

Cheers Mick.

User avatar
Pluggy
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 1932
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:13
Location: Barnoldswick
Contact:

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Pluggy » 03 Sep 2012, 16:10

Stanley wrote:Looking tidy, when do you install the overhead crane?
Bodge, I like my bananas ripe not hard as bullets!
I'm with Stanley, nothing worse than crisp bananas.
Pluggy's Home Monitor : http://pluggy.duckdns.org
Barlick Computers : http://stsr.co.uk

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 57118
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 04 Sep 2012, 03:24

The nice thing about the Co-op is that there fruit is so under-ripe that when anything ripens they panic and sell it on an orange label.
Two articles written yesterday, probably another two today. That will give me a nice cushion. Engines sat there on the unit in the kitchen looking nice!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Whyperion
Senior Member
Posts: 1837
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 22:13
Location: Stockport, after some time in Burnley , After leaving Barnoldswick , except when I am in London

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Whyperion » 04 Sep 2012, 08:55

You could rig the completed engines up to run a juicer for the ripe fruit ?

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 57118
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley » 05 Sep 2012, 05:08

A day of worthy endeavour. By 9am I had written another article for the paper and sent it off, had me morning walk and had 15 minutes rest with a chapter from 'Berlin'. Then into the shed.

Image

First job was to take 6 feet of 7/8" bar and find 9" of 1/2" bright steel.

Image

Close of play. Four crosshead pins made and ready for the collars and taper pins that will be the retainers. It keeps striking me how close I am to finishing! Very satisfying.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

Locked

Return to “Crafts”