The Barlick War Memorial Group

[Thomo]

Thanks for that Ian. What I am going to do next is have a look at the memorials existing names to see if there is any parallel. One thing that is noticeable is that nearly all of the names on the memorial are in the book CPGW, maybe that is where they came from!

[Thomo]

I believe that we can forget that little worry. I have just picked six names at random from those on the memorial, out of the six. five were born elsewhere. This suggests that a large part of the men were born out of town, and I do not intend to pursue this further. The list stands unchanged, but I am going to add the names of those who were born here but resident elsewhere at time of death and let the council decide whether to include them or not. Interesting here is that I knew some of the families from this second group whe were still here after WW2.

[PanBiker]

The late 19th century and early part of the 20th century saw a lot of immigration into Barlick as families moved to the town for work in the mills. My own family came down from the dales, (Dent) and settled in the town. My Aunt Mary and Uncle Bob were born in Dent but the rest of the family all born in Barlick. I think the only thing that really matters is where the individuals called "home" when they went off to war. They are all "ours", native or adopted and should be remembered as such.

[klondyke49]

Hi there Group,

I am not sure that the council needs to be involved in the decision of which names to include or not to include.

If the Group feels that there is justifiable reason that a particular name should be added and it has satisfied your criteria for inclusion, is acceptable as having a legitimate link to Barnoldswick and the family (if known) has no objections then It should be an inclusive list.

keep up the good work

regards
Ken

[PanBiker]

My feelings also Ken, as I see it the councils role is to help facilitate what we are trying to do. They have already pledged their support to that effect. If we publish our findings to the wider community and ask for any objections or further information, I think we will then be in as good a position as can reasonably be attained. We should wait though until we have a final list from all theatres, so we are not doing it piecemeal. We can present it as a a feature which would be more likely to engage the public.

[klondyke49]

Indeed Ian,

You have my full support in that.

regards

ken

[Thomo]

And mine Ian. And now the final tally:-

FINAL LIST OF WW1 NAMES FOR ADDITION TO MEMORIAL


ABBOTT ALBERT
ABBOTT BROUGHTON
BAILEY GEORGE ALFRED
BARRETT PETER
BELL ARTHUR
BLEZZARD JOSEPH
CLAYTON JOSEPH
COUSINS GEORGE
CROWTHER JAMES HARTLEY
DODGEON BERTIE
DOWD WILLIAM
DUERDEN RICHARD
ERNEST ALFRED
FAY JOHN
FEARN CHARLES
FRANKS GEORGE PHOMFRAS
GOLDING GEORGE ABRAHAM
GREEN ARTHUR
HARGREAVES JAMES
HOLMES WILFRED
IREDALE JOHN
LAWSON GEORGE
MILLER GEORGE
NICHOLSON JOHN ROBERT
PICKLES EDMONDSON
PICKLES MARK
PILKINGTON THOMAS
WALKER SUTCLIFFE
WILSON JAMES
WILSON JOHN

[Thomo]

And I thought that was the end of it!! When the pond of information dries up its always as well to sieve the mud, and in this there were two finds. Percy Rosen and Richard Mercer. Percy if he qualifies could well be the first casualty from Barlick, one month into the war. Before the War a great many Russian and Eastern European Jews came to Britain, and many settled in Lancashire. Percy was born in Manchester but it would appear that he moved here. Richard on the other hand was born here, one thing is clear, this is going to be a serious bit of digging before I can say, "Thats it".

[Thomo]

I can find no evidence to support Percy or Richard other than SD has them both as resident in Barlick. Richard joined the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment in 1899 and fought in South Africa, but his attestation document has his birthplace as Burnley, Percy was not only born in Manchester he enlisted there and was a lodger there in 1911.

[Thomo]

A Barlick Family who's ancestor is not on the memorial at his Mothers request may now be added. When I queried this originally, the family decided to stay with that decision, now it appears there may be a change of mind, they have my contact details and are advised to get in touch with their final wishes.

[Stanley]

That's interesting Peter. I've never come across people not wanting names recorded before. Understandable I suppose but it must be rare. I'll consult Brother Leslie.

[Stanley]

Leslie got back to me....
Hello Stanley

I have read of families of relatives who were reported "missing" who held to the belief that the person may not have been dead and would eventually turn up, and so didn't want them recorded as dead on a memorial.

There was, in fact, an interesting case in France in 1918 of an amnesiac soldier who was "claimed" by several hundred families:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/book ... grief.html]LINK[/url]

I believe there are also cases of some who were not recorded because the family had moved away from the district, or who had themselves died, at the time names were being gathered.

I would also guess that some people might also refuse to have a name put on a memorial as a sort of protest again the war, although I have no evidence of this happening. I've also come across some examples of protests at the amount of money being spent on memorials at a time of post-war economic recession.

It seems to be quite common for names to have been missed. A researcher in Sussex found 55 new names for one memorial, in Horsham, I think.

Hope this helps

Leslie

[PanBiker]

I think that we have noted in this thread before (or the research thread) that the omission of this particular name was as a protest against war. I welcome a change of heart.

I personally have never regarded war memorials as edifices of glory. They exist at the behest of the nation to remember those who served and made the ultimate sacrifice. All were raised by public subscription and none are "owned" other than by the community they represent. When we finalise our proposals for the additional names we will put them first to the community for approval.

The practicalities of adding the names, in whatever form will then involve the council who are responsible for the maintenance.

With Peters discoveries from the First World War and the current tally of my research from the Second World War we will be looking at more than 40 names to add to the environs of our memorial.

[Stanley]

I agree. The only other thing that has always struck me is the absence of names of civilians killed. I first saw this on the memorial in Rothenburg ober Taube.

[PanBiker]

Stanley, the criteria for who was included on the local memorials around the country was left entirely up to the committees raised from each local community. I would imagine that the memorials around the areas of the country that saw a lot of Second World War bombing may well include more civilian losses. At least one Barlick lad I am looking at was killed during air raids in Coventry whilst serving with the Auxiliary Services.

Of course the Armed Forces Memorial at the National Memorial Arboretum will ultimately contain all the names of those lost in conflicts since the end of the Second Word War including losses from terrorist actions.

It is this avenue I have been pursuing to see if I can find any Barlickers in there. There is an online Roll of Honour for the Memorial but unfortunately the MOD has not released sufficient data to enable a search by town of origin. You need can only search using name or service number. There is more information on this over in the Barlick War Memorial Research thread.

[Thomo]

My ten year old cousin Gordon, a Barlick Lad was killed in the North Atlantic as a result of a "U,boat" attack, September 1940, he was born on Clarence St. Also there is the wife of a Barlick Soldier, lost in the sinking of the Lusitania, her widowed husband was killed in France later, his name is on the memorial. Whatever anyones personal feelings are about who is included or otherwise, a line was drawn when the memorial was first built, I believe it should remain so for the present.

[Thomo]

I have heard that the powers that be would like to have the War Memorial sorted and updated before Memorial Sunday this year. It will soon be time to think about making our list of additions public, besides the press, may I also propose that we display the list locally in such places as the council offices and Library and whatever shops etc that are willing to participate. I have just had my CPGW data updated by John, so I will be doing another run through to see if I have missed anything.

[PanBiker]

I read the research thread first and put my thoughts in there Peter. It's an interesting time scale to say the least, 4 months from now! Why the rush? I think a more realistic timescale would be on the lines I am thinking of unless of course "the powers that be" would like to do the rest of the research as well as plan how to deploy, find all the funding and then organise the practicalities. A big ask I think seeing as they have not yet made any inroads into the £40,000 Queens Jubilee project at the Memorial Gardens which was supposed to have happened by now.

[Thomo]

My sentiments exactly Ian!

[Thomo]

I am currently arranging all WW1 losses into chronological order for the purpose of the book, this involves going through all of the names again and crossreferencing them and shifting them into separate databases for each year. I am three fifths of the way through this and surprise surprise, two more names are uncovered that are not on the memorial:- Richard Mercer and William Greenhalgh who's Brother Alexander is on the memorial. This part of the task will also of course produce a range of statistics ie, the first, the last and the most in a single day, the 30th of October 1914 could be the favourite for that one, HMHS Rohilla.

[klondyke49]

The Timescale for updating the war memorial itself is entirely within your hands. Funding provided By the Town and Borough councils relates to improving the aspect and opening up the memorial site for better access, provision of electrical supply etc and general maintenance of the immediate surroundings which will not be affected by the eventual update to the memorial itself. However, I can see a reason to complete this work package to facilitate the Remembrance Sunday Cenotaph Service within this year.

I will support the group in completing your research to your own timescale, nothing can be gained from rushing to a conclusion except errors and omissions. There are plenty of opportunities beyond November 2012 to recognize the work that you are doing and to update the memorial accordingly.

The work that you have undertaken is complex and difficult to research, I appreciate that it cannot be rushed, nor should it be. Whatever the time taken it is valuable research and would not be done without your specialist dedication to the task. For that I thank you.

My task is to try and ensure that we support you as and when you need the support of the council(s), be that this year, next year or the year after. The War Memorial Group are in control of the update to the Memorial itself.

[PanBiker]

Thank you for that Ken. I was about to ask for clarification of the intentions of the council.

Tidying up the site is long overdue and will be welcomed by all I'm sure. This will then make it easier to plan how we are going to add the names to the area. It will almost certainly involve a separate area adjacent that will need some remodelling which cannot be planned properly until we see the measure of the requirement.

For my part, I personally want to do as good a job as I can within the available resources which are fewer for the later conflicts than what they are for the First World War. It certainly can't be rushed, I would still hope to have completed by the end of this year though. My thoughts on a possible timetable of events is over in the research thread which I am sure you will have looked at so I will not repeat it all here.

It's good to know that we still have your continued support though in what we are trying to achieve.

[Stanley]

Wonderful example of how a local website, dedicated people and a sympathetic council can work. Doubles all round!

[Thomo]

WW1 list updated today, now 33 names:-

ABBOTT ALBERT
ABBOTT BROUGHTON
BAILEY GEORGE ALFRED
BARRETT PETER
BELL ARTHUR
BLEZZARD JOSEPH
CLAYTON JOSEPH
COUSINS GEORGE
CROWTHER JAMES HARTLEY
DODGEON BERTIE
DOWD WILLIAM
DUERDEN RICHARD
ERNEST ALFRED
FAY JOHN
FEARN CHARLES
FRANKS GEORGE PHOMFRAS
GOLDING GEORGE ABRAHAM
GREENHALGH WILLIAM
GREEN ARTHUR
HARGREAVES JAMES
HOLMES WILFRED
IREDALE JOHN
LAWSON GEORGE
MERCER RICHARD
MILLER GEORGE
NICHOLSON JOHN ROBERT
PICKLES EDMONDSON
PICKLES MARK
PILKINGTON THOMAS
SHAW EDWARD
WALKER SUTCLIFFE
WILSON JAMES
WILSON JOHN

[Thomo]

This morning I received a copy of the proposed re-development plan for the War Memorial, and was asked for my comments. What is proposed is I consider to be simply "A good idea" The creation of a better environment for the Memorial, with extended garden, disabled access, and important to our cause, the provision of panels in the new access to accomodate the names that are the subject of our research. It is intended that a meeting take place in July so that all interested parties can discuss the proposal before the area planning meeting in August, I have cut the important section from the plan and having received permission will post it on here shortly.



The plan came with this message:-

Please find attached the draft scheme for the War Memorial refurbishment.

This is being considered by the town council's GP committee this evening.

I'm suggesting that consultation take place with interested parties during
July with a view to the area committee considering the scheme at their
August meeting.

I'm hoping that we can get people round a table to discuss the project in
the next couple of weeks.

Please let me know what you think.