POLITICS CORNER

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 11 Jan 2020, 04:07

Very true, I often refer to Simon Schama and fellow historians saying that the incursion into Iraq would open the way for terrorist groups, they were disregarded of course. Look at what's happening there now!
PE is keeping a careful eye on how the election 'promises' are being fulfilled. One example they give is the 'free hospital parking'. Explanatory notes added since make it clear that this will only apply to a few thousand people UK wide and some of them have it now. The Red Wall areas should be taking notes... Worth reading the opinions about 'rail improvements' in PE as well. Lots of recycling of cut down schemes that were promised but failed and now are scheduled for some time in the distant future.
Noticeable that press releases from Downing Street have slowed to a trickle. Same tactic as during the election, avoid scrutiny.
On the whole, no concrete signs of any revolution in the way we are being governed. If anything, a retrenchment to more secrecy and less transparency.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 11 Jan 2020, 09:51

A BBC report this morning on the airliner shot down at Tehran shows on a map the direction and position of the plane when it it was hit shortly after take-off. The Iranians say it was heading close to a Revolutionary Guard site. Out of curiosity I had a look at the airport on Google Earth - the resolution of the Google photos for Iran is very high, perhaps because the Americans pay it so much attention! Then I looked what was on the ground ahead of the aircraft - some small industrial and residential sites, mainly. But a couple of miles ahead was an odd looking area which could be something military, especially if there is more of it below ground than above. Have a look at this Google Earth map...LINK The BBC's International correspondent Lyse Doucet says `But the big question now is: who took the decision to allow a civilian airliner to take off when Iran's airspace was shot through with such tension?'

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 12 Jan 2020, 03:45

I heard that as well Tiz. A very good question. I also heard the National Guard explanation, that in a high alert situation it looked like a cruise missile coming in and didn't answer a radio query leaving only seconds to react. They also pointed out that they were on red alert because of Trump's reckless killing of the man in Iraq. All a cock-up of course but in a way understandable.
Deputy PM Cummings getting a lot of flack.....
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 12 Jan 2020, 08:50

Stanley wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 03:45
I also heard the National Guard explanation, that in a high alert situation it looked like a cruise missile coming in and didn't answer a radio query leaving only seconds to react
How much discussion time do you get when you have only a few seconds to react? This is the big argument about star wars when its down to split seconds and you're totally relying on computer programmes. Look no further than Boeing 737 MAX if there is any doubt about what can go wrong. Why we still insist on being part of this murderous game I can never understand.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 12 Jan 2020, 09:26

I agree P. My point is that their explanation is credible. There are also reports that the plane was having trouble with its radios. However the point about why didn't they close the airspace remains.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 12 Jan 2020, 10:13

Another point about the shooting down of the airliner that doesn't get discussed is this. Everyone was talking about `a missile' being fired and hitting it. However when Iran admitted being responsible its statement referred to `missiles', note the plural. It has also been claiming that the aircraft had turned back towards the airport. It's possible that the pilots saw missiles in the sky (remember it was during the night and they may have even seen the launch flashes) and immediately started on an emergency U-turn to head back to the airport - it was still at a relatively low altitude, there isn't another airport for hundreds of miles and the Tehran airport was their only chance of safety. In the heat and shock of that moment they may not have had time to respond to radio calls. Then before they could start back one of the missiles got them.

Now we have today's news about our ambassador in Iran being arrested. With this and the airliner incident the UK and UN should now be asking who is really in charge in Iran. Who really has control?

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 12 Jan 2020, 10:30

One of the BBC military reporters said that no actual direct contact from a missile(s) would be required to bring the aircraft down with catastrophic and instant failure. The SAM missiles can be set to heat seek and explode in proximity they shatter into thousand of shards of shrapnel and effectively shred the target.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 13 Jan 2020, 04:18

I get the feeling that Number Ten regard this matter as being a useful distraction as commentators Like Private Eye dig into the 'promises' made by Johnson. One thing some of them comment on is Sajid Javez's statement that the 'fiscal Rule' stays in place. In other words a cap on government expenditure. Questions are being asked now how this fits with the promise to end Austerity.
See THIS BBC report on a Panorama investigation into the effect transfer to Universal Credit has on rent arrears. Then remember IDS was given a knighthood.... One snippet was that in Northern Ireland the rules are more relaxed and the same effect is not seen. The obvious answer is that UC is a fancy way of cutting expenditure on benefits. There are some heart-rending stories.....
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 13 Jan 2020, 09:16

Sajid Javez has promised to end austerity in the March budget, actually I thought it had already ended when Mrs May was Prime Minister. Since the 'fiscal rules' remain in place its back to robbing Peter to pay Paul, what the right hand gives the left hand takes back, smoke and mirrors. The big winners will probably be consultant agencies and foreign firms like Siemens, workers will be imported because we don't have the necessary expertise. Meanwhile another two months rolls on with the same medicine as before.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 13 Jan 2020, 10:59

It will be a great shame if the UK drops out of the Erasmus programme, especially because foreign languages are disappearing from our education system...
`Erasmus programme: Brexit might affect the EU university exchange scheme – but it's not dead yet: Education spokesperson says it is 'committed to continuing the academic relationship between the UK and the EU' but there is no guarantee' i-news
`MPs have voted against a Brexit clause that would have committed the UK Government to keeping the Erasmus+ programme that helps students study abroad. The vote does not kill off the UK's participation in the scheme but it has raised concerns among students, their families, and universities. Liberal Democrat MP and physics teacher Layla Moran, who tabled the clause to save Erasmus+, said securing the UK's continued access to the scheme should have been a "no-brainer"...'.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 14 Jan 2020, 03:56

Dead right P. I think we can see the way the wind is blowing...
Tiz, so many things are a No Brainer. However, it may be that some 'brains' wilfully ignore the truth in pursuit of their own agenda.
Downing Street still using Meghanuary as a distraction.
I see the Labour Party now have a slate for the leadership election. I shall take advice from Ian for the vote, he is more knowledgeable that I am and I trust his judgement.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 14 Jan 2020, 10:44

I am wrestling at the moment with the demands of the Jewish Board of Deputies who are trying to set the agenda for the future policy of the Labour Party. They have issued what is effectively an ultimatum of 10 commandments that they say all candidates have to agree to. The 10 points could effectively tie the hands of any future leader in taking the State of Israel to task over their oppressive stance with Palestine. Effectively they are signing up to give a third party a big stick to hit them with, as if it's not hard enough! The Board of Deputies are not representative of all followers of the Jewish faith but they purport to be so. They have links to "Labour First" and "Progress" both movements dedicated to promoting candidates and policies from the right of the party. Google them for more information.

Here are the demands of the Board of Deputies

I'm fairly sure everyone on the slate has fallen into the trap. Of course if we stick to the rules, any changes to policy would have to passed by the NEC and conference but it just opens up a whole new can of worms. It also continues to ramp up an issue blown up out of all proportion by the media.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 14 Jan 2020, 11:50

I'm all for driving out antisemitism and racism but it's very disappointing to see politicians submitting to demands of any organisation other than their own party. As you say, it looks like all the potential Labour leaders are giving in to the demands. They should have got together and told the Jewish Board of Deputies that the Labour Party will make its own decisions, thank you. I wonder if the JBD has made the same demands of all the other parties?

It reminds me of the public meeting I went to before the election when all our local candidates were asked by a member of the public if they would back the gender identity demands (e.g. a man decides he prefers to be considered as a woman and therefore can go into women's `safe places' etc). Every one of them, including the independent, said yes. Not one of them said no and pointed to the fact that if you are genetically a man with a man's anatomy and physiology you can't be a woman.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 14 Jan 2020, 12:02

Tizer wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 11:50
They should have got together and told the Jewish Board of Deputies that the Labour Party will make its own decisions, thank you. I wonder if the JBD has made the same demands of all the other parties?
Yes they should and no, the JBD have not issued the demands to any of the other parties.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 14 Jan 2020, 13:03

The Labour party must conform to UK national parliamentary laws plus any European and international laws we have signed up to. Any demands from third parties can be considered by the NEC and built into their rule book if they think fit. The Jewish Board of Deputies is no more and no less than any other pressure group trying to influence the Labour party to enhance their own position. Kier Starmer's tweet of supporting their aims is a diplomatic way of saying go ahead but don't expect anything from me.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 14 Jan 2020, 13:18

This is what the Board of Deputies has said - I don't see the word 'demand ' anywhere. They use the modern 'need to' when they mean 'should' , but I'd say that they fall a long way short of 'demanding' anything. :smile:

"Today we release our #TenPledges, identifying 10 key points we believe Labour needs to sign up to in order to begin healing its relationship with the Jewish community.
We would expect candidates for Labour Leader or Deputy Leader to publicly & unequivocally endorse these in full"
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 14 Jan 2020, 13:28

Indeed, any pressure groups, right, left or centre can lobby the Labour Party Conference and it's delegates, they can come and state their case. What they shouldn't do is to try and circumvent the process by attempting to influence the outcome of a leadership contest by making demands on the candidates.

All candidates that have gained the required number of supporters and have made it onto the current shortlist have agreed to the principles of the demands. I will be looking carefully at the pitches regarding how they will handle this particular interference.

For Stanley's information my current selection for my votes would be Rebecca Long-Bailey for leader and Angela Rayner for deputy, two northern women with the right credentials as far as I am concerned, astute enough to realise the potential elephant trap. The electorate welcomed the policies in the main, Rebecca Long-Bailey was heavily involved in formulating these for the manifesto. Angela Rayner has experienced the sharp end of social services and what it means having to rely on such support.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 14 Jan 2020, 13:39

In view of Tripp's post which was made at the same time as my previous one. I will make one point the Board of Deputies are not representative of all of the Jewish community. They denigrate other Jewish groups who support the current socialist policies of the party. They are a right wing supporting organisation so will always oppose anyone who pursues or supports socialist policies.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 14 Jan 2020, 13:45

Tripps wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 13:18
We would expect candidates for Labour Leader or Deputy Leader to publicly & unequivocally endorse these in full"
Shrinking the above quote a little 'We would expect unequivocally endorse these in full' although the 'expect' can be an act of faith, jewish or christian, it comes over as a demand, do this or else. But I'm just one of the moronic masses that takes everything at face value.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 14 Jan 2020, 13:52

Indeed. I have no problem with them bringing their proposals to party conference, (which is what it will boil down to anyway) and debating along with opposition voices then voting on etc. Pressuring them now is simply an attempt to influence the outcome of the leadership election.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 14 Jan 2020, 14:29

Regarding the Labour Party leadership election, this link will be useful and will be updated at the end of each day.

Labour Party - Leadership-2020
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 14 Jan 2020, 15:50

This is getting needlessly complicated and once again I have had a quote attributed to me which I didn't make. I just wanted to make the point that no 'demands' were made - by anyone.

I also am a fairly simple chap so I'm off. . .

PS Here's what I use to follow the Labour Leader election. Paddy Power :smile:

Worth noting that the one with the most MP / MEP endorsements has never won, and the election mechanism is complicated, so on that basis there's good value to be had? :smile:
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 14 Jan 2020, 18:08

Sorry to upset you again Tripps, perhaps we need a code of etiquette which defines debating rules for statements of fact and those of opinion which can be commented on. Take this as a suggestion not a demand.
Tripps wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 15:50
PS Here's what I use to follow the Labour Leader election. Paddy Power

Unfortunately the site you referenced is one of those whose access is banned to me because of my delicate nature where I'm easily lead into vices like gambling and what goes under the heading of Adult entertainment?
Also I take it the 'endorsement' data comes from the same site which due to my sheltered life I can't access.
What is a man to think?

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 15 Jan 2020, 07:52

I thought I had posted already.... Mustn't have submitted it!
Thanks for the advice Ian, taken on board.
Let's not allow the Board of Deputies to sow discord between us. In my view they are simply stoking the Anti-Semitism row for their own ends and should simply be ignored.
David, don't say "I'm off", it casts a cold chill down my spine! I need my daily Tripp dose!!
I've just been listening to a man close to Trump saying that we need to align ourselves with US policy before going across the pond to negotiate trade deals. This is blackmail and perhaps an indication of which way the wind is blowing in terms of any trade agreements with the US.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 16 Jan 2020, 07:08

Political activity takes a bit of weighing up at the moment. On the face of it there is healthy debate in the House but it's noticeable that the subjects covered are mostly connected to domestic matters. Of course this is helped by the fact that the Opposition aren't asking searching questions about other matters like the US influence and the progress of trade negotiations with the EU.
I get the feeling that this is a conscious management strategy by the Cummings/Johnson partnership (for that is what it is....). The matter Tiz raised about intelligence sharing in another topic is a good example of what is going on beneath the surface.
It becomes clear that Northern Ireland is not done and dusted. The extra £1billion promised on top of what was going there in subsidy anyway is regarded as nowhere near enough to fulfil the promises that were made to bribe the devolved assembly to get its act together.
However, they will soon have to break cover as the deadline of January 31st gets nearer. Later in the year trade is going to dominate and as usual we will be getting news from a more transparent EU than Westminster. The sooner the better!
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