MEDICAL MATTERS

[chinatyke]

The story of Rob’s two decade battle with DuPont

That company! When I was purchasing chemicals I don't think I dealt with a worse or more arrogant supplier. 2 'thugs' (under the disguise of arrogant reps) from that outfit came to visit me because I had given "their business" to another supplier. I pointed out it was our business and they had been advised that their product was too expensive. They argued their product was unique which it wasn't. Same mob produced agent orange which was contaminated with dioxin because of their synthesis route. You think they have any morals?

[Tizer]

We had trouble with them when I worked in publishing with Reed Elsevier. They demanded their name should always be spelt a certain way and got very aggressive if we didn't do it exactly as they wanted.

[Stanley]

I heard that report about Du Pont.... Well done that farmer! It happens so many times with these big companies, think Bhopal.....

[Stanley]

Later. News from a representative of the supermarkets that they hadn't heard from Matt Hancock about any measures to cooperate to deliver food to you if you are self isolated. Oh Dear....
Also try logging on to Amazon and punch in Coronavirus. You'll find a lot of overpriced products, many of them obviously useless at ridiculous prices. For instance. Rapid Test Coronavirus for Dogs and Cats, £43.82.... Some nice people out there! (Don't tell Jack....)

[Tizer]

News from a representative of the supermarkets that they hadn't heard from Matt Hancock about any measures to cooperate to deliver food to you if you are self isolated. Oh Dear....

And this: `One executive said he was "baffled" by the suggestions. An executive told BBC business editor Simon Jack: "Matt Hancock has totally made up what he said about working with supermarkets. We haven't heard anything from government directly." He added that sales of cupboard basics such as pasta and tinned goods have "gone through the roof".' LINK

[Stanley]

I went searching yesterday and as I suspected a weak bleach solution is the best and cheapest anti-viral treatment. It does your hands no harm at all especially if you use a good hand cream as well.
I've mentioned it before but the best prophylactic for Foot and Mouth was a washing soda solution. I wonder if that works for Covid19 as well. That will be even cheaper than bleach!

[Marilyn]

Has anyone heard news of Nolic?

[Stanley]

Not me. No news is good news! Bad news travels fast.

[Big Kev]

He's still posting in Facebook land...

[Tizer]

I went searching yesterday and as I suspected a weak bleach solution is the best and cheapest anti-viral treatment. It does your hands no harm at all especially if you use a good hand cream as well.
I've mentioned it before but the best prophylactic for Foot and Mouth was a washing soda solution. I wonder if that works for Covid19 as well. That will be even cheaper than bleach!

A 0.1% sodium hypochlorite solution is said to kill coronaviruses within 1 minute. Normal bleach is about 5% so diluted 1 in 50 should do the job. At that dilution a bottle of bleach will go a long way!

[Stanley]

I make sure my hands are bleached at least once a day when I do my pot and the sink.
I suspect my best ally will be the fact that I have solitary habits, nearest I get to a crowd is passing someone in the supermarket or the Town Square shops. Nowhere near the same risk as a night in a bar.....
Worth remembering that single use latex gloves are cheap at about £5 for a box of 100.
What do you reckon to a solution of washing soda Tiz?

[plaques]

Coronavirus. It would now appear that the UK is in the 'delay' phase, ie: at a point where the number of infections start to explode into massive numbers. Once it has reached this point there are two options, 1) lock everything down and stop industry in one swift move, or 2) carry on as normal and take what comes along. In numerical terms the number of infections will probably be the same only spread over a different time scale. Option 1) is probably what most people expect and politically it gets the most brownie points although in truth No 2 makes more sense in not getting involved with something you have no control over anyway. At the end of the day it will be peoples actions that control events, re: panic buying, the need to earn a living while avoiding crowds etc may be suitable for others. Today's slogan is 'Get Covid Done' , it will take about the same time as 'Get Brexit Done'.

[Tizer]

What do you reckon to a solution of washing soda Tiz?

It's used for cleaning and disinfecting large equipment but in relatively strong solutions. I doubt it would be as good as bleach for disinfecting hands and domestic items against viruses, but better than nothing if bleach were not to hand (not a pun!). An important thing to remember when using these chemicals is that their effectiveness is reduced if much organic matter (dirt, grease etc) is present. With bleach the chlorine reacts with anything organic, not just the germs.

Plaques, regarding the choice of action to take... other factors to keep in mind are `knock-on effects' and `unintended consequences'. For example, closing schools means someone else has to look after the kids; also, you could end up with lots of kids roaming about in shopping centres and catching and spreading virus. For every business that reduces its activities several other businesses are then forced to reduce theirs. Trying to avoid all these things must be like a minefield!

[Tripps]

News from Italy - Not good.

Thousands crowded train stations in Lombardy or jumped into their cars after details of a draft decree banning people from leaving or entering the region were revealed by Corriere della Sera late on Saturday afternoon. On Sunday morning dozens of police officers and medics wearing masks and hazmat suits waited in Salerno, in Campania, for passengers who had boarded overnight trains from Lombardy. The passengers will be registered and obliged to self-quarantine as fears mount over the virus’s spread in the south.

“What happened with the news leak has caused many people to try to escape, causing the opposite effect of what the decree is trying to achieve,” said Roberto Burioni, a professor of microbiology and virology at the Vita-Salute San Raffaele University in Milan. “Unfortunately some of those who fled will be infected with the disease.”

The northern regions of Lombardy, Emilia-Romagna and Veneto account for 85% of all the 5,883 confirmed cases to date and 92% of the 233 recorded deaths. Puglia in the south has had 26 cases, while the provinces of Basilicata and Calabria have had just three and four cases.

Michele Emiliano, the president of Puglia, signed an order on Sunday obliging all those arriving from the north in the coming hours to go into quarantine.
“Get off at the first train station, don’t take planes to Bari and Brindisi, go back by car, get off the bus at the next stop,’’ he wrote on Facebook, mostly addressing people from the region who live in the north. “Do not bring the Lombardy, Veneto and Emilia epidemic to your Puglia. You are carrying the virus into the lungs of your brothers and sisters, your grandparents, uncles, cousins and parents.”

However, the impact of the decree on flights and trains to and from the north are not yet clear. Under the new guidelines, local judicial authorities can decide whether to suspend flights. As of Sunday afternoon, it was still possible to travel by train and plane to Lombardy but, in the next few hours, there will be checkpoints at motorways, train stations and airports.

“The fact that the epidemic is still increasing substantially obliges us to take these measures to limit the freedom of people, which of course are very extreme measures that I don’t think have ever been taken in any other democratic country,” Walter Ricciardi, an adviser to the Italian health ministry on the coronavirus outbreak and member of the World Health Organisation.

[Sue]

I went searching yesterday and as I suspected a weak bleach solution is the best and cheapest anti-viral treatment. It does your hands no harm at all especially if you use a good hand cream as well.
I've mentioned it before but the best prophylactic for Foot and Mouth was a washing soda solution. I wonder if that works for Covid19 as well. That will be even cheaper than bleach!

When I first graduated I ran a bacteriology lab and did research into disinfectants and disinfectant testing ( the latter was very flawed, I wrote a paper on it ) . We particularly concentrated on iodine based disinfectants and foot and mouth disease, a virus. The latter was very susceptible to iodine disinfectants and acidic ph , the latter being more important. The efficacy was reduced by farmyard dirt. Bleach in solution is acidic and also an oxidising agent so I guess thats why it works. Its a long time ago for my brain :laugh5:but anything only works in clean conditions, so get those hands and surfaces wahed!

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... uspensions

[Stanley]

Thanks Tiz and Sue. Very much as I suspected.

[chinatyke]

Just to pick up on something Sue posted above, she is talking specifically about iodophor preparations and you must not acidify normal bleach (sodium hypochlorite solutions) which have a minimum of 2% NaOH (caustic soda) to maintain stability. The main rule is DO NOT MIX BLEACH with other cleaning agents.

[Stanley]

Timely warning China and very pertinent. Besides, as Sue says, as long as surfaces are clean and non-greasy bleach works best on its own.
Lots of reports about empty shelves in supermarkets and some branches instituting rationing. I haven't seen any signs in Barlick as yet but I was told on Saturday that disinfectant sales have jumped in town centre shops.
Later.... I know that at times some of the things I do are regarded as slightly eccentric but I don't think anyone can accuse me of being stupid. That being the case I had a reassessment this morning and made a major decision.



I have put the handle back on the hot tap because I think it will make my hand-washing more effective as I can get a lather on my soap easier. It will put my gas consumption up I know but in the circumstances at seems to be a sensible decision. Dead easy, I just got the knob out of the cupboard, reinstalled it and turned the tap on. A bit of dirty water initially but otherwise no problems even though it has been off and the tap closed for many years!

[Marilyn]

YES! The hot tap is back!!!!
( I did a little victory jump)

[Marilyn]

Trigger finger due to excitement....

[Stanley]

So nice to know I have introduced some joy in your life Maz....

[Sue]

Just to pick up on something Sue posted above, she is talking specifically about iodophor preparations and you must not acidify normal bleach (sodium hypochlorite solutions) which have a minimum of 2% NaOH (caustic soda) to maintain stability. The main rule is DO NOT MIX BLEACH with other cleaning agents.

Yes, quite definitely don’t mix any preparations with anything else, it can be highly dangerous. When disinfectants /cleaning agents/antiseptics are manufactured considerable research is done to make sure the preparation as bought is both effective and safe to use. That was my role in the lab I ran. The chemists created the mixtures and checked their chemical efficacy and I checked their biological safety and efficiency. We rejected hundreds of preparations for various reasons. AND it has to be remembered that what works on a bacterium does not necessarily work on a virus.AND just because it works on one organism it may not work on another. Times have changed since I did my work, there is a greater range of products but listen to the advice given, keep things clean and use all products only as recommended.

[Marilyn]

So what about good old iodine preparations, that they swish everywhere during operations....? ( iodine wraps were the only thing that saved my toe after spider bite...I had a hole under my toe you could poke a mint lolly in!)

[Sue]

So what about good old iodine preparations, that they swish everywhere during operations....? ( iodine wraps were the only thing that saved my toe after spider bite...I had a hole under my toe you could poke a mint lolly in!)

Iodine is good. Iodophors are more stable, have cleaning properties as well and can have additional active ingredients I seem to remember. The big issue with both is the staining.

[Stanley]

I can remember that my mother always had a small bottle of iodine about her person even if we were out for a walk or a picnic. Second only to Surgical Spirit she swore by it and every cut or insect bite got a dab of iodine, no matter how much it stung!