Coronavirus (Covid19) Corner

[Stanley]

For many years, historians and doctors tried to establish a link between poverty and Public Health but consistently failed despite the anecdotal evidence of many investigators, chief of which was Seebohm Rowntree. Then in 1936 William Gollancz published Poverty and public health by G. C. M. McGonigle and J. Kirby. McGonigle was the Officer of Public Health at Stockton on Tees and noted circumstances following the transference of a body of workers from one half of an area of slums that was demolished, the inhabitants were transferred to new housing.
What McGonigle noted and documented was the surprising deterioration in the health of workers on the new housing estate. The same statistics from the workers in the slum property showed no deterioration. From this he proved to the satisfaction of the researchers that the deterioration of health was a consequence of poverty and not ameliorated by the improved housing conditions. Perhaps we need to go back and look at this evidence.
One surprising factor in the publication was the intervention of Harold Macmillan, he was MP for Stockton from 1924 to 1929, the period when McGonigle was doing his research and it is believed he was instrumental in Introducing McGonigle to Gollancz. When he lost his seat in 1929 he was described as 'the Socialist member', his war service had woken him up to the problems of poverty and his political thinking was directed to humanising the Conservative Party. In 1938 he published his book 'The Middle Way' which described a political course that steered between the extreme Right and Left. Another book that deserves re-reading. I once met Harold by chance and was so gob smacked when I realised who he was that I told him I had read The Middle Way. Good he said, I wish more people would do so! When on retirement he was created a life peer he chose 1st Earl of Stockton.

[Sue]

May be , but this one is very complicated as the disease is more easily spread in crowded areas and of course over crowding often goes with poverty. There are a number of factors that have been linked with the disease that are also linked to poverty but it is not as clear cut as perhaps it has been in the past. Poverty is often linked to malnutrition, a d this has been linked to obesity buy these days that is also a disease of the rich, and indeed the ordinary person. The epidemiological study will be interesting that is sure, but I am also sure it will be different from other diseases.

[Sue]

These complexities have just been discussed in the daily update

[Stanley]

It was complex then also Sue. The bottom line is that it's indefensible to pretend that Middlesbrough has had as good funding as some favoured parts of the SE. Out of sight, out of mind. After all, that was the raison d'etre behind the Northern Powerhouse.

[Sue]

I am not disputing that but there are an awful lot of unknowns here, plus a lot more known about the susceptibility of individuals , which include susceptibility due to race for different diseases by reason of genetics, and there is strong evidence that this may feature here. Some of the diseases like diabetes are higher in some race and there is evidence that this increases the susceptibility to the virus

I know this has political overtones but I would prefer they were discussed on the politics page and keep this for the science related issues, otherwise it gets all tangled up . I know thats real life but I have enjoyed the science contributions here. I prefer to dip into politics less often, not being my interest.

[Big Kev]

There is a BBC News story that a pneumonia case, back in December in France, has had the nasal swabs retested and they came back positive for Covid-19.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52526554
A question for the scientists on here, would the virus survive, on a swab, from December?

If that is the case it throws new light on people's claims that they 'had the virus late last year'...

[Wendyf]

Can I just toss vitamin D deficiency into the mix?

[Sue]

There is a BBC News story that a pneumonia case, back in December in France, has had the nasal swabs retested and they came back positive for Covid-19.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52526554
A question for the scientists on here, would the virus survive, on a swab, from December?

If that is the case it throws new light on people's claims that they 'had the virus late last year'...

It depends if they are looking for live virus or nucleic acid material. No to the former, yes to the latter I would think. Nucleic acids do alter with time , oxidation I think, but you are usually talking months or years. My daughter is the one to answer that !

[Sue]

Can I just toss vitamin D deficiency into the mix?

Absolutely, I believe there is a link between ethnic groups and vitamin D related to there higher levels of melanin in their skin. This protects against UV light, but in the UK where the levels are lower then this protection can actually have a negative effect on vitamin D assimilation and production.

[Big Kev]

There is a BBC News story that a pneumonia case, back in December in France, has had the nasal swabs retested and they came back positive for Covid-19.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52526554
A question for the scientists on here, would the virus survive, on a swab, from December?

If that is the case it throws new light on people's claims that they 'had the virus late last year'...

It depends if they are looking for live virus or nucleic acid material. No to the former, yes to the latter I would think. Nucleic acids do alter with time , oxidation I think, but you are usually talking months or years. My daughter is the one to answer that !

It'll be interesting to see the outcome of the report, mentioned in the story. There could be a high number of people who have already had it. I've not seen much recent press about the antibody testing, that was being developed, which would 'prove' this.

[Stanley]

And here's me swigging Cod Liver Oil every morning. Getting me daily dose of vitamins A, D and E. (Plus the bleach!)
Sorry if I upset you Sue but sometimes it's very difficult to separate politics from public health policies. I shall try...

[Sue]

https://systematicreviewsjournal.biomed ... 019-1123-4

Interestingly other research says part of the problem is that immigrants from warmer climates tend to stay indoors because they find it so cold thus recucing their ability for the body to manufacture Vitamin D.

[Sue]

And here's me swigging Cod Liver Oil every morning. Getting me daily dose of vitamins A, D and E. (Plus the bleach!)
Sorry if I upset you Sue but sometimes it's very difficult to separate politics from public health policies. I shall try...

It is difficult I know but it has to be done.

[plaques]

Poverty is often linked to malnutrition, a d this has been linked to obesity buy these days that is also a disease of the rich, and indeed the ordinary person. The epidemiological study will be interesting that is sure, but I am also sure it will be different from other diseases.

Complicated isn't it. Some of the rich eat far too much but on balance (oh dear) tend to follow a better diet regime and keep their weight down. The poorer orders tend to eat cheaper junk food not just on price but also on working patterns. The opinion on obesity and the covid-19 is that excess fat can compromise the immune system making recovery for this viral infection much more difficult.
See this You Tube clip for a more scientific explanation. Obesity

[Sue]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- ... n-11982809

[Big Kev]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- ... n-11982809

That's an encouraging development.

[Tizer]

A question for the scientists on here, would the virus survive, on a swab, from December?
If that is the case it throws new light on people's claims that they 'had the virus late last year'...

If the swab was stored by medics or scientists, yes the virus would survive. It would be expected to survive if carefully frozen and would definitely survive if freeze-dried. Freeze-drying is a standard method for storing live virus vaccines.

Note that the diagnosis was very late December, the 29th. The man's wife worked at Charles de Gaulle airport and had been in contact with many Chinese travellers. This is an isolated case and most scientists would wait to see any further such early cases before giving credence to this one.

[Big Kev]

Note that the diagnosis was very late December, the 29th. The man's wife worked at Charles de Gaulle airport and had been in contact with many Chinese travellers. This is an isolated case and most scientists would wait to see any further such early cases before giving credence to this one.

Good point.

[Tizer]

Two government documents referenced today by the BBC in relation to immunity testing...
`Pre-empting possible negative behavioural responses to COVID-19 antibody testing to realise their potential benefits' SAGE on immunity testing

`List of participants of SAGE and related sub-groups' SAGE participants

[Stanley]

See THIS BBC report about the resignation of Prof. Neil Ferguson from SAGE. He broke his own lockdown rules...
A question... did we really need to know the visitor was 'his married lover'?

[Tizer]

This article gives some idea of why we see so much variation how different people react to the virus. It's not only differences in the people and the mode of infection but because the virus is constantly mutating too...
`Coronavirus mutations: Scientists puzzle over impact' LINK

[Tripps]

I've been browsing back over this thread.

For me it started about early January 2020 Wuhan Who'd have thought we would be where we are today then.

I valued Marilyn's contributions to the thread - they had the voice of experience, and the 'ring of truth' about them.

For example :-

We know exactly who is sick. We know exactly where they got it. We track any contacts down. We track that they self isolate and we test. We fine or gaol if they do not comply.... Even if you are well and have crossed internal borders within Australia this week, your phone is tracked and they check with you twice a day to see if you are where you said you would be self isolating.

I think UK is living in a fool’s paradise with it’s “tip of the iceberg” testing protocol.
How can you state accurate figures about the infection rate if you only test those presenting to hospitals?

There may be half a million people, shivering under their quilts at home...sick.
( and then to say “if we lose 20,000, this will be a good outcome”.)

April 5th I am signing off. Bye.
Good luck...you are gonna need it and could likely do with friends, Listen to what the world is saying, for heaven’s sake...


Todays numbers are
UK 201,000 reported cases with 30,076 deaths.
AUS 6,800 cases with 97 deaths.

[chinatyke]

One thing that strikes me is what a good job the government are making of NHS propaganda. Most people think the NHS is doing a marvellous job and will stand and applaud them. Look at the truth! Half the Covid patients in intensive care die, and 1 in 7 of hospital patients, or 14% of hospitalised cases. Hardly figures to give you confidence in their performance, they are among the worst in the world.

[Stanley]

China, the NHS is doing a good job, it's the government that is doing a bad job interfering and under-funding it. The latest figure for deaths in hospital is one third of hospitalised patients.

[chinatyke]

China, the NHS is doing a good job, it's the government that is doing a bad job interfering and under-funding it. The latest figure for deaths in hospital is one third of hospitalised patients.

You're making excuses to hide the facts! Whatever the reason the NHS is not doing a good job.