POLITICS CORNER

[Tripps]

I think this health situation could do with Politics being removed from it. No chance of course.

I'd say this is Andy Burnham playing the long game for his personal ambitions which remains high.

[Sue]

I agree politics should not be used here. I can’t comment on AB ambitions but he is voicing what a lot of us think

[PanBiker]

Also of course Boris has said that this is a Labour problem. No mention of the double standards for the Tory run LCC, more money and more leeway.

[Sue]

Also of course Boris has said that this is a Labour problem. No mention of the double standards for the Tory run LCC, more money and more leeway.

Exactly and as I said Tory councillors are also behind AB

[Stanley]

Very good posts and Sue puts it well, exactly my concerns. I feel guilty every time I have a good meal, as one council leader said (I think it was Bolton) the terrible thing is that in this day and age we are talking about measures that leave kids hungry. The stock government response is of course 'We are putting X millions of Pounds into the economy'.
Johnson would like us to think it is a Labour plot but Ian is right, some Tory Councils and even MPs are joining in the 'rebellion'. If he had his way he would just issue a diktat but he can't because under the stitch up he arranged with the House, if he does he will have to have a debate first. That's why the totally sensible idea of a 'circuit breaker' short sharp shock is being resisted as well.
For ten years now the Tories have governed by the imposition of rules direct from Number Ten as if we had a Presidential System. Brexit was treated as a Tory Party matter and now Covid is getting the same treatment. We can't afford another failed policy but what will break the log jam? I see no hope of sense reasserting itself.

[Stanley]

I think THIS BBC report on the North v. South argument on restrictions is worth reading. I think it's a good summation of a complicated matter. Meanwhile, the virus chews away at society.... We need action not words.

[plaques]

There's much talk about assistance to small firms in the way of 'Bounce Back Loans'. Government backed, zero interest rate for one year then low rate afterwards. The problem with this is that the loan must be paid back provided the firm can keep going but if the business doesn't know how long Tier 3 , or lockdown is going to last the choice becomes go bankrupt and forget about opening a business again or close down immediately and hope it can be opened up later. Firms need to plan ahead and gambling on loans to see you through but appears to be a risky option that people rarely want to take. A funny sort of smoke and mirrors sort of assistance that sounds good and adds to the government's numbers game but may not be of mush use to a small outfit.

[Stanley]

I agree Ken. I have always said that taking on more debt in a time of extreme uncertainty seems crazy to me. If the alternative is to shut down and for the bosses to lose their own income taking the loan, keeping the show going and eventually going bankrupt and therefore not having to pay any money back at all could be a 'smart move'.
I'm glad I don't have to deal with decisions like that!

[Tizer]

I missed this at the end of September...
`Support for Brexit is collapsing as poll finds shrinking minority of British people still back leaving the EU' LINK
`..A poll for YouGov of 1,623 British adults conducted last week, suggests that 50% now believe Britain was wrong to leave the European Union, the highest figure the polling company has recorded since it began asking the question. By contrast, just 39% of people said that Britain was right to leave the EU. The gap between those who still back leaving the EU and those who now believe it was wrong has grown by 8 points since the start of September. Once uncertain voters are removed from the total, the poll suggests 56% think Brexit was a mistake compared to 44% who still think it was right...'.

In the UK it's `Brexit regret'...in the US it's `Trump regret'. Americans are lucky, they're going to get a chance to correct their mistake!

[Stanley]

I have always said that, for many reasons, Brexit is insane and driven by ridiculous attitudes. I haven't changed my mind and we will see who was right next year. Come to think, it's already happening. Look at the recent letter from business leaders. Look at China for the advantages of having a big internal market. Economists have brought forward the date when they overtake the US by two years.

[Sue]

There are lies , damn lies and statistics and (now to add ) politics

The secrecy and spin surrounding Greater Manchester’s hospital figures
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... s-19131905

[plaques]

Questioning Gove's speech in Parliament what was the difference between an Australian deal and No deal the previous answer had been 'Semantics. Gove didn't reply.

What does it mean when someone says semantics?
Have you ever heard someone say, "That's just semantics?" Basically, they're saying you're picking apart the meaning of a word to draw a different conclusion but it all means the same thing.

In politics the only thing that really matters is what people think things mean not what they actually mean.

[Tizer]

This leaves me lost for words...
`Trump closes his campaign by insulting Fauci for telling the truth' CNN.com
`President Donald Trump's election endgame argument, far from bristling with new solutions to a pandemic that has killed 220,000 Americans, on Monday devolved into a campaign of insults against Dr. Anthony Fauci -- for telling the truth about the disease. Trump ridiculed Fauci as a "disaster" and an "idiot" who has been around for "500 years" -- trashing one of the nation's best hopes of easing the pandemic along with his recommendations to quell an alarming Covid-19 surge. His personal warfare against Fauci on a frenzied day on the campaign trail, while indecent and questionable from a strategic political perspective, revealed how the US government effort to beat the pandemic has been suppressed in the service of Trump's re-election....Trump's capacity to shock is tempered by the uproar of his nearly four years in office. But it is still mind boggling for a President to smear and lie about an infectious disease expert who is revered across the world, was an instrumental figure in beating back HIV/AIDS, Ebola and Zika,and is focused on the worst public health crisis in 100 years..'.

[Tripps]

There are lies , damn lies and statistics and (now to add ) politics

The secrecy and spin surrounding Greater Manchester’s hospital figures
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... s-19131905

That was the article I alluded to in the Covid thread. Politics and the Covid virus are merging at the moment.

The Manchester Evening News has said tonight they cannot get any information on the number of admissions to Manchester hospitals, and their subsequent outcomes. The lack of information seems to have been universal and coordinated. I wonder why that should be?

Much has been made of the occupancy of Intensive care beds, in Manchester, but I've seen figures which show that 85% plus is quite normal, even in pre-Covid times. It is said that more could quickly be provided if required, and transfers to other hospitals were available. Is someone trying to make the situation appear worse than it actually is? I wonder why that should be ?

They'll be telling us that "the science is settled" next. I think I've heard that somewhere else.

[Tizer]

The last thing that science will ever be is settled. You've only got to go to a conference to see them fighting like cats in a sack!

[Stanley]

Good posts....
Trump and Fauci; breathtaking! I can't make up my mind if it's surreal or simply disgraceful. In truth of course it's TV presenter Trump doing his 'shock jock' bit. Problem for him is that in any normal society it would play only to the faithful who love it and repel the moderate voters he needs to attract. The problem there is that the US is no longer a normal society.
Sue, there's something very sinister playing out in the Manchester affair and I don't know what it is. My suspicion is that the root is in No. Ten. If they impose any national restriction Parliament has the right to debate and scrutinise, picking off individual councils makes it local and avoids Parliamentary scrutiny, something which Cummings/Johnson have a pathological hatred for. They remember how it brought T May down!
As I understand it the talks are still deadlocked and this in itself is a travesty of what is needed. I see manipulation of the figures as a sideline, regrettable though it is that the councils seem to be being denied up to date statistics. What matters is that the 'second wave' of Covid seems to have struck and it seems to me is a product of easing off the summer lockdown to soon for many reasons, from economic activity to educational turmoil. If this is the case action is needed as soon as possible not political stand-offs.
Meanwhile, the people who really matter, from the NHS to voluntary food banks are bracing themselves for what they can clearly see coming down the road at them. This is a failure of governance in the end, the buck stops in Westminster and until Sunak opens the purse strings and injects more money into the system we face an economic tragedy quite apart from the medical one.
Please tell me I am wrong.
Later... Confirmation that the Manchester negotiations are still happening, Downing Street have said that 'their door is open'.
Still no news about the continuation of free school meals until Easter 2021. This is a disgrace, that free meal is for some children literally a life saver. The Treasury appears to be quite comfortable running an economy with hungry children on top of the general descent into poverty. Is this the bottom line reason why Andy Burnham is holding out for more money.

[Tizer]

I hope the NYT lets out more information from the accounts!...
`Trump maintains bank account in China, says NY Times' LINK
`US President Donald Trump has a Chinese bank account and spent years pursuing business projects in the country, the New York Times has reported. The account is controlled by Trump International Hotels Management and paid local taxes between 2013 and 2015. It was set up "to explore the potential for hotel deals in Asia", according to a Trump spokesman. Mr Trump has been critical of US firms doing business in China and sparked a trade war between the two countries. The NY Times revealed the account after obtaining Mr Trump's tax records, which included both personal and company financial details..'.

We started watching the TV programme last night about Trump's 4 years of presidency but switched off after about 10 minutes. It was too depressing, for example seeing him telling one of his rallies that the virus was the latest Democrat fake news story. I see the Biden camp is now spending more money than Trump on communicating with voters. I wonder if the Republicans are running short now that folks are turning away from trump because of his handling of the covid pandemic. It was great hearing old ladies in Florida who voted for Trump in 2016 saying now they see he's `just too rude'!

Back in the mother country this is good news...
`Agriculture Bill: Lords win vote to protect post-Brexit standards' LINK

[Sue]

Good posts....
Trump and Fauci; breathtaking! I can't make up my mind if it's surreal or simply disgraceful. In truth of course it's TV presenter Trump doing his 'shock jock' bit. Problem for him is that in any normal society it would play only to the faithful who love it and repel the moderate voters he needs to attract. The problem there is that the US is no longer a normal society.
Sue, there's something very sinister playing out in the Manchester affair and I don't know what it is. My suspicion is that the root is in No. Ten. If they impose any national restriction Parliament has the right to debate and scrutinise, picking off individual councils makes it local and avoids Parliamentary scrutiny, something which Cummings/Johnson have a pathological hatred for. They remember how it brought T May down!
As I understand it the talks are still deadlocked and this in itself is a travesty of what is needed. I see manipulation of the figures as a sideline, regrettable though it is that the councils seem to be being denied up to date statistics. What matters is that the 'second wave' of Covid seems to have struck and it seems to me is a product of easing off the summer lockdown to soon for many reasons, from economic activity to educational turmoil. If this is the case action is needed as soon as possible not political stand-offs.
Meanwhile, the people who really matter, from the NHS to voluntary food banks are bracing themselves for what they can clearly see coming down the road at them. This is a failure of governance in the end, the buck stops in Westminster and until Sunak opens the purse strings and injects more money into the system we face an economic tragedy quite apart from the medical one.
Please tell me I am wrong.
Later... Confirmation that the Manchester negotiations are still happening, Downing Street have said that 'their door is open'.
Still no news about the continuation of free school meals until Easter 2021. This is a disgrace, that free meal is for some children literally a life saver. The Treasury appears to be quite comfortable running an economy with hungry children on top of the general descent into poverty. Is this the bottom line reason why Andy Burnham is holding out for more money.

I agree Stanley. I think Manchester has been picked out. See what happens when you object you get nothing. So accept what we offer and shut up ! I am appalled and horrified at what it will do to this area and the north in general

[PanBiker]

That's the difference between a Labour controlled area and Lancashire where the Tories are in charge. Bozo and Cummings are just feeding their mates. I see the Young Conservatives in Gtr Manchester have asked Boris to resign. His so called take over of the "Red Wall" is crumbling.

[Sue]

That's the difference between a Labour controlled area and Lancashire where the Tories are in charge. Bozo and Cummings are just feeding their mates. I see the Young Conservatives in Gtr Manchester have asked Boris to resign. His so called take over of the "Red Wall" is crumbling.

Oh yes he has done a lot of damage this week. Manipulating the media by saying talks were taking place when they weren't, and manipulating statistics. I am not a supporter of either party, they both play the political game but this was just plain underhanded and abhorrent

[Sue]

Interesting read
Two weeks that unmuted Greater Manchester
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-19144543

[Stanley]

"ten years of iniquitous public service cuts and a running sore about centralisation throughout the pandemic."
Sue, that was the key quote I got from the Evening News article. Spot on!
As I understand it Tier 3 has now been imposed on Manchester and the £60million is to be split amongst the individual areas.
Here's another quotation that grabbed me. I comes from MD's article in PE and concerns the latest report by 21 industrialised countries as reported in 'Nature Medicine'. Professor Majid Ezzati, lead author of the report said:
"We cannot dismantle the health system through austerity and then expect it to serve people when the need is at its highest, especially in poor and marginalised communities"
I see from Peter's post that the Government has been defeated in the Lords over the Agricultural Bill amendments which, in effect, weakened statutory control over food standards. What would the result be of a debate in Parliament over the latest situation as evidenced by the treatment of Manchester? Look there for the real root of Number Ten's descent into lies and diktats.
Later... See THIS BBC report on the rejection of the petition to continue free school meals and make up your own mind. (While you do, bear in mind that as far as I am aware the current proposal for a pay rise for MPs is going ahead.)

[plaques]

Would you buy a second hand car from this man? Michael Gove answer to Theresa May watch at 1 minute on.
Gove

[Tizer]

`FBI says Iran and Russia have US voter information' LINK
`US national security officials say Iran was responsible for sending threatening emails to Democratic voters. The emails appeared to come from a far-right pro-Trump group and were meant to "incite unrest", National Intelligence Director John Ratcliffe said. Mr Ratcliffe also said US officials found Iran and Russia had obtained "some voter registration information". The announcement comes 13 days before the presidential election. The unusual intelligence briefing this close to the vote is seen as a testament to the government's concerns over voting interference and disinformation campaigns from foreign actors. Mr Ratcliffe said Iran's "spoof emails" claimed to be sent by the far-right Proud Boys group in order to "intimidate voters, incite unrest and damage" President Donald Trump. He added that the voter data could be used in attempts to "communicate false information to registered voters that they hope will sow confusion chaos and undermine your confidence in American democracy"..'.

[plaques]

I see Pendle's MP Andrew Stephenson voted against free school meals during the holiday period. I hope he can come up with a satisfactory explanation other than it would further his career Who ate all the pies?