Coronavirus (Covid19) Corner

[Tizer]

There's more discussion about Blair's one-dose proposal here. People are taking sides on it but it best to look at the details and see what it would mean. For example the fact that you can't simply switch from a one to two dose approach without going through the MHRA approval over again. Balir's health passport idea also gets analyse in the article...
`Coronavirus: Vaccinate more people with one dose, urges Tony Blair' LINK

[Stanley]

I think I'll leave decisions on something like that to the scientists....

[Big Kev]

I saw a comment, on the 'We are what we eat' thread about not all GP practices will be dishing out the covid vaccine. Certainly worth checking as not all will be chosen by PHE.
A 'Google' of the news outlets shows this from Sky News on December 15th

Will all GP surgeries be giving the vaccine?

No. Practices will be chosen by Public Health England (PHE) to become vaccine hubs on the basis they will stay open for longer to ensure all the vaccines they have can be used.

[Stanley]

All will become clear in good time. No rush for me, I shall not be exposing myself to any more risk than the last 9 months.

[plaques]

Is it our turn now?

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The Last Muster.jpg

[Stanley]

I think they have priorities wrong, health staff and carers should be should be the priority not the old. That's just an effort to hold back the number of deaths because it looks bad.
I'm listening to a professor from UCLA from Los Angeles talking about the fact that California is in crisis, the medical facilities are swamped. This is blamed on back to back holidays encouraging people to gather together.

[plaques]

The Last Muster, The old Pensioner with the walking stick has already 'passed over'. Vaccinations would be too late for him.

I think they have priorities wrong, health staff and carers should be should be the priority not the old. That's just an effort to hold back the number of deaths because it looks bad.

True, and it looks even worse if you are one of those who has died. The big problem in giving it to first liners and health care workers is one of logistics. The Pfizer vaccine comes in large quantities, 975 per batch to be kept at - 70C. Even collecting all the staff together in a big hospital would result in a lot of wastage, spreading it to care home in penny numbers would be even more wasteful. On the other hand giving it to the over 80's as quickly as possible will reduce the death rate. I can see that the government and the Health service is faced with a moral problem that fortunately I don't have to make.

[Tizer]

If governments around the world had taken note and acted on the warnings from the WHO and scientists in recent decades we would have been prepared for these problems. We'd need systems of government that work for the long term, not the short term. The same applies to climate change and antibiotic resistance.

[Stanley]

As I have noted elsewhere the government makes decisions on what they think will accord with the voter's wishes and not on direct evidence and advice. This is not how good leadership works. In the case of the virus it is patently obvious that the strongest measures must be used. This would include delaying the opening of schools until the staff have been trained in the use of the rapid test and all the resources were in place. This is what the teachers are recommending but they are being ignored.
I hear what you say about the problems in distribution and think that many of these problems can be overcome when we have the Oxford Vaccine which only needs normal fridges. The sooner this happens the better.

[Tizer]

Here's a different approach to vaccination. It's not made obligatory but you know who hasn't been vaccinated and is therefore a potential spreader and needs education in the benefits, safety and reasons for vaccination....
`Spain to keep registry of those who refuse Covid vaccine' LINK
`Spain is to set up a registry of people who refuse to be vaccinated against coronavirus and share it with other European Union nations, the health minister has said. Salvador Illa said the list would not be made accessible to the public or to employers. He said the way to defeat the virus was "to vaccinate all of us - the more the better".
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Here in the UK I fear there's going to be a boom in the infection rate, especially with the new variant, if schools go back in January. It could put the NHS in chaos. Testing isn't fully in place and isn't fully reliable. Teachers and parents will be at risk, as well any other relatives living with the families.

[Stanley]

I saw the Spanish announcement Peter and thought how sensible it is, we should do the same thing.
I'm listening to the warning voices about what is coming down the road and despairing at the news that Gavin Williamson is 'fighting' for the right of children to be schooled. I think he should be made to go to a hospital morgue and made to view the possible results of his blind adherence to dogma. He keeps saying how few children are affected by the virus when the truth is we don't know that for sure, long term effects of exposure to the infection are continually surprising the scientists. Will someone please take him on one side and explain to him how infection works!
On a personal note I am stepping up my precautions. Only one venture per week into town centre and supermarket. Mask and gloves worn on each occasion. More attention placed on social distancing. Would that everyone else could and would follow the same rules.

[Marilyn]

On a personal note I am stepping up my precautions. Only one venture per week into town centre and supermarket.

About the only other thing you could do is order online and have it delivered.
We only pop to the supermarket once a week and, like you, we go early (which works well except for the crowds generated by Christmas and New Year). We sign in electronically at the super market (and the chemist etc), using the code.
There was a time when masks were mandatory, but we just carry them now and put them on if staff at the supermarket have been ordered to wear them. They haven’t been forced to wear them for a while, but the Chemist insisted on it for a lot longer.
Hubby even had to register electronically just to buy fuel today. I thought that was weird, because no one gets terribly close to you at a petrol station. I was also shocked to see the electronic sign in pasted to the petrol bowser. Every idiot knows the risk of using a mobile phone near petrol!

[Big Kev]

The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine has been approved in the UK.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55280671

[Stanley]

I've just heard the news Kev. Good, this makes it a lot easier to do some serious vaccination.

[plaques]

Hubby even had to register electronically just to buy fuel today. I thought that was weird, because no one gets terribly close to you at a petrol station. I was also shocked to see the electronic sign in pasted to the petrol bowser. Every idiot knows the risk of using a mobile phone near petrol!

Sorry Marilyn but this idiot didn't know. In the early days there were reported instances where the mobile signal would interfere with the pump transmission and alter the reading although I doubted it very much. Many of the supermarket pumps are 'Pay at the pump' card payment, no need to go into the kiosk'

From Google.
Are mobile phones dangerous at petrol stations?
In truth, however, Dr Burgess said that even a lit cigarette was not sufficiently hot to ignite petrol on a filling station, let alone the low voltage produced by a mobile phone. “Mobile phones pose no petrol station hazard. There is nothing to worry about.”

[Marilyn]

I disagree strongly Plaques. Anything capable of discharging static is a danger at petrol pumps...even kids friction toys.
For the same reason, these things are not allowed near Oxygen therapy in hospitals.

[Tizer]

I disagree strongly Plaques. Anything capable of discharging static is a danger at petrol pumps...even kids friction toys.

In that case you'd better not go near any petrol stations, Maz, just the rustle of your clothing will blow the place up!

The new variant is in America now...
`Covid-19: US reports first known case of highly-infectious variant' LINK
`The first reported US case of the highly-infectious Covid-19 variant that emerged in the UK has been confirmed in the state of Colorado. The patient, a man in his 20s with no recent travel history, is currently in isolation. State health officials said they were working to identify contacts and other potential cases of the new variant.

[Marilyn]

Funny thing is Tizzy, I remember a very real case sometime in my past when a petrol tanker exploding during refill. It came down to the man wearing a nylon shirt, and he also had a cigarette lighter in his shirt pocket! He wasn’t smoking a cigarette but the static caused the explosion when the wheel of the flick lighter rubbed against his nylon shirt.

[plaques]

The first reported US case of the highly-infectious Covid-19 variant that emerged in the UK has been confirmed in the state of Colorado Why is it always promoted as 'highly-infectious'? There have been hardly any studies on the transfer potential. The only oe I have seen is that the new variant appears to have a rate of 15% against 10% for the established ' wild covid-19'.

The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is good news but now we shall see countless arguments about who should receive it first. Front-line workers, over 60s, children and young active spreaders which all depends on death rates, protecting the NHS, achieving herd immunity etc:. It will probably finish up 'Politicians V Experts.with a strong element of 'see what Brexit has achieved'. Months of pop vox and mini surveys.

[Tripps]

Having rejected Anthony Charles Linton Blair's advice last week on the grounds that it would not be permitted due to the conditions of the trial, the Government seems now to have totally accepted what he suggested.

There has been a suspicious delay in announcing this - it has been imminent for many days. It now appears that a single dose confers immunity after a week, and the second dose can be delayed for up to 12 weeks. I suspect 'Winston Smith' has been looking at the data at the Ministry of Truth.

Hancock also said that the Nightingale Hospitals are all ready for action. I must have imagined the photo I saw yesterday of the empty buildings and all the screens and chairs stacked up.

We would respect them more if they just said we got it wrong and have changed tack, but they are not capable of that.

"Throughout this global pandemic we have always been guided by the latest scientific advice. Having studied evidence on both the Pfizer/BioNTech and Oxford University/AstraZeneca vaccines, the JCVI has advised the priority should be to give as many people in at-risk groups their first dose, rather than providing the required two doses in as short a time as possible.

Everyone will still receive their second dose and this will be within 12 weeks of their first. The second dose completes the course and is important for longer term protection".


Stanley -you are doing right by changing your routine - be a shame to succumb when the end may be finally in sight. Maz's suggestion is even better.

PS Will they now change the protocol for the Pfizer vaccine - after giving the full PR treatment yesterday to the lady who had the first jab, when she had her second?

PPS _I like the advice of the lady in the St Agur advert Just get on with it

[Sue]

On a personal note I am stepping up my precautions. Only one venture per week into town centre and supermarket.

About the only other thing you could do is order online and have it delivered.
We only pop to the supermarket once a week and, like you, we go early (which works well except for the crowds generated by Christmas and New Year). We sign in electronically at the super market (and the chemist etc), using the code.
There was a time when masks were mandatory, but we just carry them now and put them on if staff at the supermarket have been ordered to wear them. They haven’t been forced to wear them for a while, but the Chemist insisted on it for a lot longer.
Hubby even had to register electronically just to buy fuel today. I thought that was weird, because no one gets terribly close to you at a petrol station. I was also shocked to see the electronic sign in pasted to the petrol bowser. Every idiot knows the risk of using a mobile phone near petrol!

We order everything online. The only time we go near a shop is the postoffice and Hermes shop to return things and on the very rare occasion we run out of something. We do the market on Saturday at 8.30 am when it is practically empty and it is also outside .

Apparently petrol pump hoses and nozzles are high risk as so many handle them one after the other . We always sanitise after getting petrol, in fact after touching anything outside that isn’t ours .

[Big Kev]

Tier 4 it is then
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55489932

[Tizer]

Having rejected Anthony Charles Linton Blair's advice last week on the grounds that it would not be permitted due to the conditions of the trial, the Government seems now to have totally accepted what he suggested. There has been a suspicious delay in announcing this - it has been imminent for many days. It now appears that a single dose confers immunity after a week, and the second dose can be delayed for up to 12 weeks. I suspect 'Winston Smith' has been looking at the data at the Ministry of Truth.

The Pfizer vaccine and the Oxford vaccine have completely different mechanisms, hence the different ways of giving the two doses and the different recommendations about how quickly immunity might be conferred. When Blair made his pronouncement the Oxford vaccine (the 1 week/12 week one) hadn't been approved and it wasn't known if it would be allowed into use.

Kev, if it's any consolation we're in it with you!

[Big Kev]

Kev, if it's any consolation we're in it with you!

To be honest I don't think it'll make any difference to me, I work from home, Paulette has taken her pension early and we only shop about twice week. Fortunately youngest offspring got his wedding in just in time and had 2 days in Whitby for a honeymoon.

[Tripps]

Having studied evidence on both the Pfizer/BioNTech and Oxford University/AstraZeneca vaccines, the JCVI has advised the priority should be to give as many people in at-risk groups their first dose, rather than providing the required two doses in as short a time as possible.

Fair comment - but doesn't the above statement imply that they will do the same for the Pfizer vaccine too? It could be argued from that - they plan to modify the delivery of both vaccines?

The accidental improvement in outcome due to the first Astrazeneca injection being a half dose was said not to be allowed to be practised in real life, as it was not properly trialled. There was no trial of that vaccine on a single dose basis, with a follow up at 12 weeks, but that's what will happen.

No mention of Blair in the media today. His argument was that one shot gives 91% protection and two give 95%. Better to give two people 91% protection.rather than one getting 95%. The figures for Astrazenica were not as high, but the same idea applied. I thought it made sense, and still do.

As the thing is predictably out of control again I agree. No mention of the R number at all today I see. Too scary I'd guess. It's time for bold action. The economy and society cannot stand another year of this.

I worry that as the time passes, and results are analysed over the coming months, we will be approaching the better weather, and the thing which seems to be seasonal, may slow down of its own accord and we ease up.