Coronavirus (Covid19) Corner

[Tizer]

The most dangerous thing I have done for a year is spend ten minutes in a closed space with a nurse at the surgery while she did my diabetes tests.

Those pretty nurses will find any excuse to get a handsome man into a closed space!

[Stanley]

That may be true Peter but in terms of infection risk you have to be realistic. A treatment room embedded in an old building with no window or ventilation must be fairly high on any list of comparative dangers.
All I have to say about the figures for deaths etc is that avoiding accepting responsibility for them like the Conservative Lady on Question Time last night does nobody any good.
Have a look at THIS transcript of a debate in Westminster Hall and make your own mind up about who did what in the early days of the pandemic.
Sir Patrick Vallance says that the new strain of the virus is more deadly, as much as 30% more to men over 60. Deep Joy!.

[Marilyn]

As I have said before, Australia can afford to wait for an effective vaccine. We should wait to see the result of mass vaccinations overseas, then we can afford to pick the best, or indeed wait for something better.
I always worried about the virus mutating, and learning to survive in such places as air conditioning ducts or water cooling towers. ( I was shot down by the brains amongst you of course, and have pretty much kept quiet on this subject since then).
I distinctly remember Wendy asking me to calm down and not be so distressing.
How many thousands of deaths was that ago?

[Marilyn]

( no blame on you of course, Wendy, but I think we had a full view on the risks long before you lot did)
And...I think we still have!

[plaques]

I always worried about the virus mutating, and learning to survive in such places as air conditioning ducts or water cooling towers. ( I was shot down by the brains amongst you of course, and have pretty much kept quiet on this subject since then).

I've probably posted as much on this subject as others on OG but never considered myself as in the elite Brains group. Like many others I read as much as I can trying to discount headline grabbing statements. Unfortunately at the moment they are coming thick and fast with the latest one to hit the ground which may actually have some legs to it is the concern that by delaying the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine we may be causing a future problem of allowing a more resistant mutation to take hold via people whose resistance may be on the decline through the extended waiting period. Resistance On whether some makes of vaccine are better than other I don't know but I'm sure that the real experts will decide that. At the moment the Pfizer (super cold) is more difficult to handle than the fridge temperature ones

Keep cool, and keep safe.

[PanBiker]

Sir Patrick Vallance says that the new strain of the virus is more deadly, as much as 30% more to men over 60. Deep Joy!.

To put this into a better understood context. That means that for a thousand people in that age group, the risk has gone from 10 people dying to between 12 and 13 deaths per thousand.

[plaques]

Stanley wrote: ↑23 Jan 2021, 04:49
Sir Patrick Vallance says that the new strain of the virus is more deadly, as much as 30% more to men over 60. Deep Joy!.
To put this into a better understood context. That means that for a thousand people in that age group, the risk has gone from 10 people dying to between 12 and 13 deaths per thousand.

No reflection on you Ian but again we are seeing more on the hoof statistics pushed out by the media. The front line medics have made great strides in reducing the morbidity and death rates by better ventilation practices and anti-inflammatory drugs. We are then left wondering if the 30% increase is based on the old standard of care or the current higher standard.

[Tizer]

Keep cool, and keep safe.

I'd advise, keep warm and humid and stay safe - the virus survives better in cold, dry conditions. But if you are forced to mix indoors with people you don't already associate with then you'll have to open the windows to get air circulation but that will cool down the air. That's why we need to start moving to `controlled mechanical ventilation with heat recovery' for shop and offices etc.

[Tripps]

the virus survives better in cold, dry conditions

I'm concerned that the virus will decline as the seasons change, at about the same time as the vaccine should be having an effect. Will it be possible to decide which has had a bigger influence?

**************************
I read this in Comments somewhere, - It's just someone else's take on the situation - but remembering that mRNA vaccines are readliy modified to deal with mutations. Let's hope so.

So to recap, lockdown modelling assumed being able to isolate a virus, a virus having a low mutation rate, there being no impact on the provision of wider healthcare over the medium term.


Yet by the time lockdown was introduced the virus was also endemic globally and across the UK so lockdown could never isolate it. The virus has proved to behave exactly like other corona viruses and mutates rapidly. And access to critical treatment has been disrupted for over a year with 200,000 more now waiting more than 12 months.


Now we have a COVID vaccine that is based on a variant that is already on the wane, overtaken by new strains that the vaccines are less effective against. Meanwhile the virus is now endemic so newer strains will continue to emerge in perpetuity. Like flu, vaccination will not be able to address all variants ensuring annual surges for the now endemic virus.


And in just one year we've spent nearly £1tn, sacrificed a year of education for all our children, destroyed 1mn jobs with a further 9mn hanging in the balance, and not actually saved any lives, only deferred death whilst we work out vaccines won't help either.

[Big Kev]

Boris Johnson has said there is "some evidence" the variant may be associated with "a higher degree of mortality".

But the co-author of the study the PM was referring to said the variant's deadliness remained an "open question".

Another adviser said he was surprised Mr Johnson had shared the findings when the data was "not particularly strong".

A third top medic said it was "too early" to be "absolutely clear".

[Stanley]

Do we really need to know if it's slightly more dangerous or who has handled the virus most efficiently?
It's still there, it's still dangerous and this isn't going to change. our only hope of any relaxation is months in the future when we see what effect vaccinations have. Until then just isolate!

[plaques]

by Big Kev » 23 Jan 2021, 19:22

Boris Johnson has said there is "some evidence" the variant may be associated with "a higher degree of mortality".

But the co-author of the study the PM was referring to said the variant's deadliness remained an "open question".

Another adviser said he was surprised Mr Johnson had shared the findings when the data was "not particularly strong".

A third top medic said it was "too early" to be "absolutely clear".

The suggestion is that this warning may be part of the governments campaign to emphasise the 'Keep Safe' guide lines. Nothing wrong with sending another shot across the bows but it may be seen as crying wolf a bit too early. Remember the 'Don't Die of Ignorance' adverts?
It has also been suggested that it a subliminal attempt to blame 'the people' in an attempt to divert attention away from the governments abysmal lockdown programmes.

[Tizer]

I read this in Comments somewhere, - It's just someone else's take on the situation - but remembering that mRNA vaccines are readliy modified to deal with mutations. Let's hope so.
So to recap, lockdown modelling assumed being able to isolate a virus, a virus having a low mutation rate, there being no impact on the provision of wider healthcare over the medium term......And in just one year we've spent nearly £1tn, sacrificed a year of education for all our children, destroyed 1mn jobs with a further 9mn hanging in the balance, and not actually saved any lives, only deferred death whilst we work out vaccines won't help either..

[I've cut out the bulk of the comments quoted by Tripps - the rest can be read above.]
It sounds to me like something written by one of those anti-lockdown fanatics. They pop up in the comments below news stories all the time. Very negative. They don't like having their precious lifestyles and money-making activities disrupted and would happily let thousands of people die instead. If we'd not had lockdown the virus would have spread and mutated at a much faster rate and many more people would have died or suffered lifetime disabilities. In fact we could have had many fewer deaths and infections if the government had locked down earlier and stopped infected people entering the UK early in 2020.

The majority of people now are respecting the rules for distancing, mask wearing and avoidance of mingling, but we need to clamp down more heavily on the rule breakers because that's where the virus is spreading. You probably read about the 140 people attending a wedding party recently in a Jewish school building in London. The school didn't know, it's been closed and is used at present as a drive-in vaccination centre. But it's usually let out via an agency to make some extra cash and the school staff didn't know about the party. Sadly the school's head died from covid-19 early last year. People disregarding the covid rules are probably responsible for more deaths in the UK in the last year than terrorists have been in the last 20 years. Perhaps it's time we starting treating the rule-breaking spreaders as terrorists.

[Tripps]

The school didn't know

Yeah right. . .That would be the same group who are reported as being refuseniks for the vaccine.

Meshugenneh !

We've just had a family wedding much postponed, and held under Covid secure rules. There was a total of 15 people present. It went well.

[Wendyf]

400 people at the wedding in the school according to the news reports.

[Tizer]

Wendy the early reports were based on what people told the police when they complained. The police found about 140 were there.

Tripps, that reply seems a bit out of character for you. A touch of guilty until proven innocent?

[Wendyf]

Ah, I had missed that update, thanks Tiz.

[Stanley]

A lady from a Jewish organisation was on R4 and reported that a freelance photographer had told her of other weddings breaking the rules and also that after the police broke them up they reconvened elsewhere. They seem to believe that religious observation trumps civil regulation. That may be where your 400 came from Wendy because I think I heard that figure mentioned.

[Tizer]

It looks like the management of this school in this specific incident may not have known what was planned but it's now clear these parties involving `ultra-orthodox' Jews have been going on in various other London schools: Jerusalem Post I suppose it's a bit like the evangelist Christians in the US not observing the need for covid controls.

[Sue]

( no blame on you of course, Wendy, but I think we had a full view on the risks long before you lot did)
And...I think we still have!

I presume thats a generalisation Maz, since I have always understood the ins and outs of this pandemic, as I do with the vaccine...to the best of my ability that is. I blame the media for a lot of the misinformation as they miss out crucial words in their headlines and if headlines is all a person reads then they are very ill informed. I think SAGE and the experts know exactly what is going on here

[Big Kev]

I blame the media for a lot of the misinformation as they miss out crucial words in their headlines and if headlines is all a person reads then they are very ill informed. I think SAGE and the experts know exactly what is going on here

I've noticed the BBC are tending to start with a 'sensationalised' headline, usually a misquote from the story. When you read the actual story most of it looks to be supposition and no substance.
I believe it's been mentioned on here before that mistakes have been made, it's an evolving situation and has been for over a year and sadly the media highlight the mistakes.

[Big Kev]

( no blame on you of course, Wendy, but I think we had a full view on the risks long before you lot did)
And...I think we still have!

Surely then, as a responsible nation, Australia should be advising the rest of the world on how to tackle the pandemic...

[Tizer]

Another example of the selfish minority...
`Hackney railway arch rave attended by '300 people'' LINK

[Marilyn]

Is it compulsory in UK that you must either digitally ( or manually) sign in at every place you enter? ( every shop, supermarket, petrol station, market, bottle shop...in fact anywhere you may go regardless if you are popping in for 15 seconds to buy a newspaper). Digitally, it is just a matter of scanning a bar code as you enter a premises, each premises having their own unique barcode stuck on a window or door.
Manually, it is a sign in, generally located near the door and next to the hand sanitizer, though you only have to write your first name and phone number. You do not have to scan on the way out. This is part of the track and trace system so that if we have any positive cases, authorities know where they have been and who is likely to have had contact with them.
We have had it here since early December. We do notice some people thinking they are not included in this rule, but fines are being handed out if they get caught. ( at any point you may be asked to show the green tick that has been sent to your phone for access to the store ( or a check of paper-work if you signed in manually). No proof of sign in and you will be fined.
Hubby signs in electronically. I sign in manually and carry MY OWN PEN and don’t touch the paperwork
You soon get used to it.
It is not a hassle, it becomes second nature. It does not infringe your privacy.

I just wondered if UK are up and running with the same type of system?

[Marilyn]

I’m guessing you don’t have such a system in place.
Stanley doesn’t respond to me much, but I am sure he would have said something if you do.