plaques wrote: ↑25 Feb 2021, 09:29 The UK is doing better than most countries in getting the vaccine out.
Vaccines with countries in Europe lagging way behind but here we are with loads of people wanting to spend their holidays abroad. The vaccines may help them prevent or reduce their own illnesses but they can still bring it back in large numbers. Perhaps now is the time for laying down rules for foreign travel but no doubt old 'two weeks late' Boris will be behind the curve again.
If Sturgeon can hold on to Scotland (is there a credible 2nd personality in the SNP?), then that should keep the notice that leaving shores made safer by vaccine is probably not a sensible thing to do.
Tripps wrote: ↑25 Feb 2021, 12:07
.. died about three weeks ago from a covid infection, acquired after going into hospital for treatment for a leg ulcer. ..
We (I?)have been going on about this kind of event. It does seem that covid - I think Channel 4 are going to do something on 'superspreaders' is incredibly difficult to control, the hand washing, disinfectant cleaning air changes PPE changes (assuming hospitals are doing things right now), appears to have at best limited effect , with little prior research on coronavirus behaviour particularly in the limited numbers needed to pass from host to host , and the fast host internal spread to create such large viable numbers of virus cells system, its not something the science world has really thought of in alternative means of combating, other than using the bodies own defensive systems more effectively with the use of pre-primed vaccines, I wonder if there is further environmental safe alternatives ?
That countries are having difficulties in controlling infections the BBC report and summaries look at Hungary and the Czech Republic, - along with Dunkirk in France, all have increasing cases and hospitalisations - and quite simply the lack of effective vaccine capacity to create and supply shows the only present way cases will be controlled in the future, all three locations suggest it is the UK / Kent variation of the more likely to be acquired version that is driving their increased cases , which does bring us back to my comments in the previous paragraph. Quite what is mainly in the EU an apparent mental block on creating more sources of vaccine production puzzles me, with limited supply it means the ration by mix of clinical need vs economic activities held back because the wider community remains unvaccinated creates an effective here and now price per does delivered that must be larger than the cost of developing new capacity ? ( presumably if/when the present covid is close eliminated the technology can be switched to either other coronvirus variants if they are found to be worth life limiting in further research, or other air or fluid transmitted diseases across the world - in humans or other species, plus the looks like needed annual immune top-ups).
Final back on PF effectivenes - the BBC re-hashes its previous report into a new summary, no more clear really -
A study involving almost 1.2 million people in Israel has found that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 94% effective at providing protection against symptomatic Covid-19 across all age groups above 16 one week or more after the second dose was administered.
So that sounds simple enough, but this is a sort of numbers problem. If we say 600,000 people were vaccinated, and 600,000 were not, the overall numbers of infections, and severity are compared, and it is the change in the number of infections that generates a 94per cent difference , not that only 6per cent of the vaccinated get symptoms, which is less headlining as the report goes on..
Researchers at Israel's Clalit Research Institute and Harvard University also reported that people were 57% less likely to get develop symptoms and 74% less likely to require hospital treatment two weeks after the first dose, according to a paper published by the New England Journal of Medicine.
This seems to indicate then more that about 40percent of those vaccinated wll still get symptoms, and a quarter of infections will need hospitalisation, but that reading is wrong. It is more that If 100 unvaccinated persons got symptoms then with vaccine only 40 would get symptoms. but we need also to know generally how many people do indeed get symptoms without vaccinations. IF 30 of those unvaccinated needed hospital treatment (is that the normal proportion ?), then with vaccine about 6 to 8 will need hospitalisation.
( can we assume that by attrition of time the whole population will get infected anyway , so the vaccine reduction is worth having just for the hospitalisation reduction? ).
This study is interesting in the light of the UK move to 'level 4' where it is thought hospitals wont be overwhelmed in the next 21 days, as the number of persons in hospital with covid treatment happening is reducing, but its much slower than the drop in reported positive test cases of persons with and without symptoms (anyone seen actuals for those 'surge testing' area reports ?). I suspect in part the study is looking at the 2nd does situation, and we know the first does gives significant protection, but at a lesser level than the second dose, so this retention of higher numbers than we might like in hospital is partly related to the lag in getting second doses out ( not that the optimum gap is actually known it is a bit of a range of min and max days that one cannot really control), it must be frustrating that the vaccine (ie the human body !!) cannot work quicker and more effectively itself - back to the Vit D / Vit C and healthy diet for assistance all round ??
gotta love a bit of technology, certainly a memorable vaccination tale. It made me and P laugh out loud.
