STANLEY NEEDS HELP!

Post Reply
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 97984
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

STANLEY NEEDS HELP!

Post by Stanley »

STANLEY NEEDS HELP!

That's right, I'm looking for a bit of help from my readers. By the way, if you want to give me a call do it before 10AM because after that I don't answer the phone, they are all cold calls!
As I am sure you all know by now, water resources are a big part of any understanding of how our mills started and what kept them going. The water-powered mills obviously needed good water supplies but so did the steam driven mills, not for the boilers so much as many people suppose, but more importantly as cooling water for the condensers that made the engines so much more efficient. There is plenty of evidence for this, mills complaining because another engine upstream from them was sending too much hot water down in summer and ruining their efficiency. This is why the ownership of water rights was so important and the mill owners didn't hesitate to bring down the law on anyone who interfered with their supplies. I've looked in the past at how William 'Billycock' Bracewell actively interfered with the water supplies to Old Coates Mill run by his cousins and this was one of the contributory factors that drove them out of business in the 1860s.
The thing I want help with is, funnily enough, connected with Billycock being short of water at Butts Mill. When he built the mill and started it in 1843 Calf Hall Beck was just about adequate to supply the mill but he could see that in future he was going to need more as he expanded. William Atkinson comments on this in his history of the town, 'Old Barlick'. (There's a copy in the library if you want to read it.) This is why, shortly after Butts opened he bought Ouzledale Mill, at that time a water-powered saw mill. I believe that he did this to get some claim on the water coming down Gillians Beck but unfortunately, Mitchell had sewn up the rights up on to the moor and when Slaters took over in the 1860s they inherited these rights and guarded them jealously. When James Nutter proposed building Bancroft before WW1 he had to get permission from the Slaters to use the water and I think the fact that he'd married into the Slater Family helped! Even so strict conditions were attached.
Right! Have a look at the map below. I know that sometime between 1850 and 1870 Billycock came to an agreement with the Slaters to draw water off the Clough dam and meter the amount with a Lea Recorder. The water was at a higher level than Butts and was piped down to a balance pond in the Parrock. What I don't know is the route the 6” cast iron pipe took. It could either have gone direct from point 'A' on the map to point 'B' but alternatively could have been laid through the culvert under Wapping. Has anyone ever seen evidence of this pipe? If so would you please let me know? Thank you....

Image

A plan of the start and finish of the pipe. A to B.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
User avatar
Cathy
VIP Member
Posts: 5684
Joined: 24 Jan 2012, 02:24

Re: STANLEY NEEDS HELP!

Post by Cathy »

Oh dear, I was all set to come to your rescue Stanley, but alas can't help with this problem... :grin:
I know I'm in my own little world, but it's OK... they know me here. :)
David Whipp
Senior Member
Posts: 2874
Joined: 19 Oct 2012, 18:26

Re: STANLEY NEEDS HELP!

Post by David Whipp »

Stanley, do you think point 'A' is an accurate location? Was the lodge to the south of the Clough Mill buildings shown on the map?

Incidentally, you'll recall your query about the neglected plot of land between the New Ship and the joiners shop on Walmsgate; you thought it may have been part of the Clough Mill title and passed to Pendle Council when Silentnight gave the land to the town. This proved not to be the case. Investigations have revealed that it's registered to the Independent Methodist Association (ie part of the New Ship title. Approaches are being made about keeping it tidy.
User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 8094
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: STANLEY NEEDS HELP!

Post by plaques »

Detail from 1st addition OS.
No help I'm afraid. Except it shows a well near Walmsgate. This has the possibility of a direct line to your point 'B'.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 97984
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: STANLEY NEEDS HELP!

Post by Stanley »

Point 'A' on the map is my guess, is the head race to the old water wheel. The start point had to be at the level of the water in the dam.
I'd love to see the culvert opened up across the Clough site to the point where it goes under the road there..... It is over 150 years old and potentially the most serious flood risk in the town. But you know that, I've been banging on about it for years. Is there an inspection report for the culvert anywhere? I'd love to see it......
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
David Whipp
Senior Member
Posts: 2874
Joined: 19 Oct 2012, 18:26

Re: STANLEY NEEDS HELP!

Post by David Whipp »

Don't know if there has been a recent inspection of the culvert.

I've told the tale of Cllr Valerie Whipp having a look at the culvert when Pendle Re-employment Project dug it out in the 1980s... it had been blocked near the exit by a dustbin washed into it, leading to flooding of property on Walmsgate.

I've mentioned the issue during two meetings I've had with Environment Agency managers in recent months.

Following the flooding around Barlick in August, I've been chasing LCC (who are the lead local flood authority) to take effective action on some of the problems causing properties to get flooded. I've been disappointed by their response. (On the other hand, Pendle Council has been doing a good job checking culverts and getting blockages cleared.) However, following a rocket I gave the county council last month, LCC has submitted a £20k bid for modelling work in Barnoldswick. This has been accepted by the EA. I'm hoping that this could lead to significant and effective capital investment, which could include the culvert at Walmsgate. (There again, I'm ever the optimist...!)

I see what you mean about point 'A'. The water would have been too low for Butts if it had passed to the East of Clough Mill; they would have taken off at the nearest point, which would have been the mill race.
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 97984
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: STANLEY NEEDS HELP!

Post by Stanley »

The Calf Hall Shed Company minutes detail the abandoning of the Lea Water Flow Meter installed at one time to measure flo0w to Butts but there is no specific mention of the location of the take-off point. I go from experience and ask where I would have put is and the bottom corner of the dam or the race to the water wheel is the logical place.
Good news about the modelling project. I know I get boring about this but we have the evidence of 1932 and one thing is certain, eventually there will be another episode on Weets like that. Question is, will the culvert take that flow? In 1932 a major factor was blockage in Clough caused by debris being washed down by the cloudburst which is why I am always nagging about the culverts. They are the choke points and their capacity to take the flow will be crucial.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 97984
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: STANLEY NEEDS HELP!

Post by Stanley »

Bumped and the image restored.
If you search the site you'll find that later I found evidence for the balance pond in the Parrock but no evidence of the connection between Clough Mill and the pond.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 97984
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: STANLEY NEEDS HELP!

Post by Stanley »

Bumped again. The responses from David Whipp are still interesting and pertinent. Sooner or later there will be an event on Weets like 1932..... Amazing how a simple fact like this can be ignored.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 97984
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: STANLEY NEEDS HELP!

Post by Stanley »

Sooner or later the need for this discussion will become clear. Will the culvert take the flow?
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Post Reply

Return to “Stanley's View”