ENERGY MATTERS

[Pluggy]

Carbon Monoxide from coal ? how does that involve hydrogen ?
Or maybe introduce steam into the equation to make town gas and separate the hydrogen from that ? Getting a bit complex.

[Stanley]

Small producer gas plants were quite common, there were two round here, one producing gas from sawdust at Berry's wood-yard at Sough and one that Newton talks about in his transcripts, not sure exactly where but I think it was the quarries at Salterforth. Both used to drive gas engines. North western buses in Stockport used small plants towed behind buses, they used charcoal as fuel. During the war the furnaces at General Gas at Audenshaw were fired with water gas which was slightly different in that steam was injected into the coke fire-bed and if I remember rightly this gas had a high proportion of hydrogen in it. Plugs is right, clean electricity from fusion would alter the equation completely. At the moment electricity is just about the dirtiest and inefficient power source there is when you look at how it is produced. In terms of cleanliness and efficiency there was a lot to be said for old-fashioned coal gas, they washed the fumes from the retorts and reclaimed a lot of chemicals that would have otherwise gone to the atmosphere.

[Tizer]

The production of CO2 as an unavoidable consequence of making hydrogen will become less important in the future. Methods are already being developed for using CO2 as a chemical feedstock to make materials such as plastics, so we'll be able to make use of the CO2 at the same time as preventing it's release to the atmosphere. There's already a scientific book on the subject and the blurb says: "Filling the need for an up-to-date handbook, this ready reference closely investigates the use of CO2 for ureas, enzymes, carbamates, and isocyanates, as well as its use as a solvent, in electrochemistry, biomass utilization and much more."

[Stanley]

I remember writing an essay on fuel about 30 years ago in which I said that in the future people would wonder what the hell we were thinking about burning valuable chemical feedstock inefficiently just to get some heat out of it. There is still merit in this line of thought!

[Stanley]

Lit the stove last night and was surprised when it refused to draw properly. I think an investigation and a but of flue cleaning is indicated!
Later... I fell into the trap of investigating the flue and found myself doing a flue cleaning first thing in the morning, definitely not on the plans! However, I found the problem, surprising how much muck there was in the bend at the bottom of the liner. Half a carrier bag full later and a good vacuum, problem solved. Clean shirt as well...... A good job well done and I suspect a good ploy will be to light a clean hot fire and let it attck the remaining soot in the liner. We are ready for winter!

[Stanley]

Flueing was a complete cure. We had a bright fire last night!

[Stanley]

Small fire last night, I refuse to have anything less than a comfortable temperature when I'm relaxing watching me telly! 6 bags of smokeless delivered by B&D yesterday. We are ready for winter! Don't laugh, in case you haven't noticed we are into September. The lump of workbench I had to cut out a week ago to give clearance for one of my machines kept me warm all evening. Economy is the household mint! I'm keeping track of the fuel costs and in January I'll do a comparison between the costs of gas and running the stove.

[Stanley]

I see that the price of road fuel is attracting attention again. Does anyone really believe that this will do any good? The bottom line is that the energy companies have a monopoly and are operating an unofficial cartel that can't be broken by legal means. Don't hold your breath!

[Whyperion]

The amount of wooden pallets that seem to be going to waste/ landfill would probably keep a wood burner well stocked. I know problem could be if they have been dipped in paint or preservative. I understand for the handyperson pallets also can make good shed planking for the garden , or raised bed sides. (for the garden , or if desparate , the bedroom )

[Tardis]

It was apparently a stack of pallets with equipment on for the school at Lanshaw Bridge that were set alight in last night's arsen

[Wendyf]

Npower have just informed us that they are increasing our direct debit by 20% for the next year, despite the fact that we are in credit by over £70. Our monthly payments last year were only £35.

[EileenDavid]

Diesel here in Brittany is 1.35 euro's a litre. Petrol at 1.52 euro's is still cheaper than the UK so is it the company's or is it the taxman? Eileen

[Whyperion]

I think it could be related to the amount of tolls charged on the Motorway roads in France. In some ways a good idea , lower road fuel prices for effectively rural area local journeys ( wasnt Barnoldswick getting the UK fuel duty cut ? )

[Stanley]

We are back into fireside evenings again. Winter is upon us!

[Tardis]

the equinox arrives, with a brilliantly sunny autumnal day

The Central heating can go on tomorrow

[Tizer]

Yes, we fired up the log burner on Thursday evening for a quick blast of renewable fuel energy! We've got a chap coming next week (weather permitting) to replace the render on our chimney stack and I've asked him to fit a 600mm (2ft) chimney pot in place of our short one to lift the top higher above the roof ridge (the stack comes out of the back slope of the roof and hardly clears the ridge height). With luck it might make the stove more reliable and get us through the `slow burning' nights. He's also putting insulation on the floor of our back bedrooms which have old uninsulated concrete floors - a membrane, 50mm of Xtratherm (polyisocyanurate foam board with foil backing), topped by a floating floor of chipboard panels. We'll also upgrade the windows from the 25-year-old simple double glazing to the latest argon-filled double glazing with low-emission coating and insulated spacers. Argon is now used instead of dry air because it's more dense, which reduces the amount of convection between the inner and outer panes. The low-emission coating is a microscopically thin layer of metal oxide applied in a vacuum. It selectively transmits short-wave infrared radiation and reflects long-wave infrared. It lets in the sun's short-wave infrared which warms the air and the walls and furnishings in your room. These warm surfaces release the heat again as infrared radiation but at a longer wavelength. If you have uncoated window glass this long wavelength infrared escapesto the outside of the house, although more slowly than it enters (which is the basis of the `greenhouse effect'). But the selective coating bounces much more of it back into the room.

[Stanley]

Sounds cosy Peter. My experience with domestic flues taught me that the diameter of the throat of the pot is more important than the height. Height helps but not fully effective unless you get rid of any potential choke point. The reason a narrow flue liner works so well is that the gas, being confined to that diameter when it is hottest accelerates to a higher gas flow and gives you better exhaust right through the system. If a larger brick flue intervenes the gas has time to wander and is regulated by the pot when it is coolest. It's the difference between the specific gravity of the gas and the outside air that gives you the draught. The smoke isn't being sucked up the stack, it's being driven from the bottom by that weight difference. In other words the hotter the gas at flue exit the better and the faster it gets there the better. Any choke in the pot militates against this.

[Tizer]

Thanks for the advice, I've emailed the man to ensure we get a suitable diameter pot.

[Pluggy]

Stick a lighted diesel soaked rag on a stick up there.........

Well, it works for mill chimneys anyway.

[Stanley]

You've got a good memory Pluggy! It was an old raincoat but then it was a big flue. However, it's a good point because even in a domestic flue you sometimes find one that has to be taught how to smoke again. Cleanest way to do it is a blow-lamp to get hot air into the flue. Anything you burn will puther back into the room.
Couldn't find 'Reviving a sleeping giant' on the site so I've posted it.

[Tizer]

I didn't use diesel but needed plenty of paper to `teach the chimney how to smook'!

I had to laugh when watching Dan Snow on that programme about Northern Ireland in WW2 where he went to see how fires were lit on the hills around Belfast to trick the enemy bombers away from the city (just as they did on the Mendips to protect Bristol). "I would never have guessed you could start fires so fast", he said to the pyrotechnics specialist. But the bloke had soaked his logs and peat in petrol (or diesel)!

[Stanley]

I saw that and also had a laugh. Mind you, how many people could light a fire outside today? I once gained brownie points with my Honorary Grandsons by showing them how to light a fire in the pouring rain on the banks of the Wye. They thought I was Dumbledore!
I've just remembered the fire-lighters you could buy at one time. Four sticks of kindling enclosing a fuel soaked centre of shavings and wired together round the outside. Very popular at one time.

[Big Kev]

I must confess to lighting my stove with a blowlamp (and I was in the boy scouts)...

[Stanley]

Nowt wrong with that, gas pokers were all the rage in the immediate post-war years. This was a hollow poker that you connected to the gas point next to the fire and lit before laying it in the grate and then chucking a shovel of coal on.
Have put the CH on for 20 minutes this last couple of mornings to get enough heat into the core of the house to keep it comfortable all day. Stove lit in late afternoon and that warms everything. No heat needed in kitchen during the day, enough coming off the fridge to keep it comfortable. Things could be worse!

[Big Kev]

Took delivery of 5 cubic metres of logs over the weekend, I now have a full shed. Ride up to Settle Coal Co. on Saturday and see what they can offer.