FORGOTTEN CORNERS

[David Whipp]

Hmm...

The current electoral boundary must run up Gisburn Old Track. (Higher Sandiford and Star Hall Farm are in the civil parish of Bracewell and Brogden and part of my patch; the boundary continues down Coal Pit Lane, with everything on our, eastern, side part of Craven Ward.) At present, the properties on the other side of the track are in Blacko (Gisburn Old Track up to Weets House) or the Ribble Valley parishes (down Coal Pit Lane).

However, the parish boundary used to go up Admergill in a lovely quirky wedge (I remember canvassing it once of a time), and Admergill was part of the parish of Brogden (Brogden hadn't been amalgamated with Bracewell at the time). Until a parliamentary boundary review implemented in the 1980s, Admergill was also in the Skipton Parliamentary Constituency.

Until 1974, Admergill (as part of Brogden) was in the county of West Riding (and I assume, part of Skipton Rural District as was Salterforth?). (I recall everything at school stamped 'WRCC'.)

Therefore, Gisburn Old Track's highway authority until 1974 was West Riding County Council.

North Yorks only came into being in 1974 in its current form and its western boundary is now (as far as we're concerned) on the administrative boundary at the bottom of Ghyll Brow.

But I haven't a clue when the track got its sealed surface!

[Stanley]

The snow plough men said it came under Northallerton.... This was in the 1960s.

[David Whipp]

Maybe they got lost?

Doubt if the gritting routes from the 1960s have survived anywhere; it's shocking how records have been skipped at local authorities.

[Stanley]

The confusion over the boundaries around there has a good historical reason. When De Lacey perambulated the boundaries before giving the Manor Of Barnoldswick to Fountains Abbey so they could establish the monastery he, or his clerks made a mistake and included part of the Royal Forest in their survey. The legal disputes between the Crown and the occupiers dragged on for over 200 years but the Crown asserted its rights in the end. For some reason, as far as the church was concerned they still held it to be part of Brogden and that's why it became an outlier called Brogden detached.



Sorry about the quality, I had to pull it out of another image. This is the manhole outside the gates into Carlson's that gives access to the culvert which carries Gillians Beck to the confluence with Calf Hall Beck further down, outside the mill. Stand over it and listen carefully, you'll hear the water running.

[David Whipp]

I've heard plenty of tales that lads in days gone by used to walk through those culverts. (Regrettably, it's not something I've done myself.)

In the 1980s, when the Pendle Re-employemnt Project gang cleaned out the culvert at Clough (a dustbin had blocked the outlet and it had silted up), Councillor Val Whipp was able to walk down that culvert. (Again, to much regret, I missed out through being at work or whatever. Presumably, today, Confined Spaces and H&S will require full BA... and a slimmer waistline than mine!)

[Stanley]

I'd love to have evidence of a cast iron pipe running through the culvert! I'm almost certain it's there as this would have been the easiest way to get water from Clough Dam to the balance pond in the Parrock. I have evidence from the CHSC minute books that Clough and Butts went halves in installing a Lea Water meter to measure the flow and such a pipe can be the only reason for doing this.

[Stanley]

Not only forgotten but a big puzzle. This is the old masonry in the Calf Hall Beck at the end of Parrock Laithe which used to be a small water-powered spinning or sliver-making mill. Go and have a hang over the wall and try to work out the levels and original use of it. The more you look, the bigger the puzzle gets. The levels are puzzling and how did the water get to the mill? Where was the wheel? Remember that this all pre-dates Calf Hall Shed and Butts Mill.

[Stanley]

A lost era. Hay-making at Colne in about 1900

[Stanley]

Clifford Turner tapping the cupola furnace at Ouzledale Foundry. A dangerous dirty job.

[Julie in Norfolk]

This reminded me Stanley. Years ago now I asked if you had ever heard of Penny Mill, and the name was a mystery to you then. I found the answer: Premier Dye Works was built by Penny Brothers and Winder between 1902 and 1909 on a valley bottom site beside Walverden Water. The firm occupied it until after 1963 when it was completely demolished but for lengths of squared stone rubble walls beside the road. It was at the end of Brunswick Street. The reason I was asking is my paternal grandad worked there

[Stanley]

Nice one Jules.... I used to know a bloke called Jim Winder, we played darts together in the Hole in the Wall at Foulridge. Uncommon name, almost certainly a relation to the mill Winder.

[Stanley]

Damhead in 1908. Post card lent to me by Mrs Turner, 6 Beech Street. Ribble Terrace has just been built and work has started on building the breast wall round what is now the site of the RC church. Could the lower section in the wall on the left be the access for the footpath along the head race for the Corn Mill Dam? Notice the water bound macadam road.

[Stanley]

Jim Marsh outside his cloggers shop at Damhead in 1910.

[Thomo]

That was still there when I was a kid. Something else that has gone from that area was the wooden Ebenezer Chapel, just behind and to the right of the Cloggers Shop.

[David Whipp]

Is that why we called it Cloggers Beck?

[Thomo]

Wrong beck David, Clogger's Beck was the one that runs under Gisburn Road near Carr House Farm.

[PanBiker]

Cloggers Beck AKA Fools Syke probably more correctly t'uther way round.

[Thomo]

Fools Syke is the one that runs near the Fosters Arms and down the Back of Westfield Road to West Close Farm. Cloggers Beck joins Stock Beck to the North East of the Sewage works. The popular access to Gloggers Beck was off Brogden Lane on the right beyond Ayhnams Farm.

[PanBiker]

I'm fairly sure Fools Syke is the correct name for what we refer to as Cloggers, this is as shown by the Ordnance Survey. Not sure what the little beck you refer to by West Close farm is called, its not named on any OS maps I have to hand.

[Thomo]

The Fosters was known as the Syke, as is this area, our bungalow is Syke Bungalow, and when I was a kid, Cloggers Beck was as described, running to the North East behind Aynams Farm.

[PanBiker]

Agreed but Cloggers and Fools Syke are one and the same. No idea what the one you refer to as Fools Syke is called. It has no name on the OS.

[Stanley]

Could the beck you differ on be Crow Nest Syke? Here's part of it on the 1892 map.

[David Whipp]

Having put my hand up to being wrong about the location of Cloggers Beck (you may have worked out that I'm not good with names by now...), I agree with Thomo about location of Fools Syke.

The map showing Crow Nest Syke is apreciated, Stanley; are you able to post the plan of the Bowker Drain?

[Stanley]

It's not very clear but here you go, click to enlarge.

[PanBiker]

The OS shows the small beck joining Stock as I would assume Crow Nest Syke does. I think it may have its source off the lower reaches of Brown Hill and the small beck in the field below Cow Pasture is part of its upper reaches. It has no defined name on the modern OS map.

The 1892 map may shed more light on what it is actually called, what does it show for that end of Barlick?

Cloggers Beck is just the local colloquial name for Fools Syke as defined by the OS unless of course they have it wrong.