THE FLATLEY DRYER

[Stanley]

In olden days.... when there was less 'entertainment' and even less money, election meetings in local halls or outdoors in fine weather were favourite places to go for a bit of a laugh. The practice of 'Heckling' was commonplace and there are some good stories about it and how the candidate dealt with it. My favourite concerns Winston Churchill when he stood for Manchester North West in the 1906 election. A man at the back of the hall kept shouting a very rude word and in the end Churchill responded; "If the gentleman at the back would refrain from shouting his name and phrase his question properly I will endeavour to answer it". Could be apocryphal of course but it's a good story.....
This was face to face electioneering, a far cry from the way it is done now in such a way that there can be no public response or challenge.

[Tripps]

I thought you'd made a mistake there but you haven't. Oldham till 1906 then Manchester North West.
Here's a good site which describes the period very fully. If you have time to read it.

Churchill in Oldham

"Churchill was elected a Freeman of Oldham in 1941, when the outcome of the war was still far from certain. He never came to collect the Freedom Scroll, although he did visit Oldham briefly in June 1945 during his election tour."

I now remember my mother speaking of this failure to come back for his award. "He didn't dare to come back" The constituency was strongly Labour after the war.

I think it was during that period that he crossed the floor or 'tergiversated'. I'm surprised this word has not been mentioned in the context of the Tory - UKIP conversions. Perhaps no one knows of it except us?

[Stanley]

David, we are the guardians of the language and eventually we shall prevail!
Thinking about politics, does anyone remember Bessie Braddock? She served as a Labour MP for 24 years and was a doughty fighter for many good causes. She had a famous spat with WSC when she accused him of being drunk. He responded that she was ugly but in the morning he would be sober....

[Stanley]

One of the most popular weekly magazines in the 1930s was 'Model Engineering'. It was full of articles for man in sheds and covered all aspects of home engineering including the relatively new area of wireless sets. I have a fifty year run of them in the front room, beautifully bound and obviously someone's pride and joy. I think I paid £300.... I still go back to them to get a flavour of what the hobby world was like in those days.....

[Tizer]

A lot of boys got their early experience of engineering through railway modelling. The most popular magazine was Railway Modeller...and it still seems to be the most popular.

[Stanley]

My Dad had a pile of 'Practical Engineer' in the bottom of the wardrobe and encouraged me to read them. He used to take me with him to General Gas each Saturday morning and I played with machinery while he did his inspection round. Then he gave me an enormous Meccano set for Xmas and later a 'Juneero' set which was a miniature sheet metal workshop, I never got on with that like the Meccano. He never tried to get me to go for engineering as a career because he believed I should pick my own path. I went for farming but underneath there was that basic interest in engineering which served me well and of course surfaced fully in later life. He loved it when I was running Bancroft engine.... He would have been fascinated with Ellenroad but never saw that development because he died before I started....

[Moh]

Just had a cheese toastie for lunch and it reminded me of the Tasty Toaster which was similar idea to today's sandwich maker - it had two circular discs at one end of a long handle, the bread was put in butter downwards, the filling (baked beans were good) put in with the top slice butter side up placed on top. The discs were then snapped together and held over the gas with the long handles. It was turned over until both sides were cooked - does anyone else remember this (would be about 1956.)

[PanBiker]

My Dualit toaster which is an unchanged 1940's design has three slots one of which is wider and holds a toastie cage with horizontal handles on the top for lifting out. Same idea Moh, I put butter on both sides of the bread, filling inside and then into the cage and slot. Works best with multi-seeded or Chia bread which makes fantastic toast even better with something in the middle. Can't have it too runny though as it sits vertically in the toaster, cheese, ham and tomato is a good one.

[Bodger]

Does anyone recall a "drawing tin" used to get the fire going

[Tripps]

You must have been well off. We got by with a coal shovel turned back to front, perched on the grate, and a sheet of newspaper. The paper often caught fire in the process.

[Stanley]

Moh, Aga made those toaster grills because they were the only way you could make toast on their stoves. You laid them on the hotplate and turned them over when one side was done. My mate Paul used to make toast on the job using a quick pass of the oxyacetylene burner....
We once had a tin with a handle but it burned out and we went back to the fire shovel and newspaper. Baxi fires were good because they got their air supply direct from outdoors through a pipe under the floor. If you opened it up fully it was like a blacksmith's bellows and you soon got a blaze!
I've just remembered the joys of the old toasting fork and current teacakes with butter!

[Moh]

You must have been well off. We got by with a coal shovel turned back to front, perched on the grate, and a sheet of newspaper. The paper often caught fire in the process.

This in turn could set fire to the chimney. I remember using a shovel to transfer fire from the living room fire place to the front room fire place - luckily I never dropped any - a silly thing to do what would elf & safety have to say!!

[Stanley]

My mother did that routinely on the rare occasions when we used the front room. She liked burning joss sticks as well, they were sold at a furniture shop on Prince's Street in Stockport. (They sold wooden spills as well) She burned them in a big Royal Doulton vase and many of them died out when they reached the rim. There must have been a bunch of them in there because one day they caught hold and the room was filled with a thick fog of incense! We had an artificial Xmas tree with candle holders on it and that caught fire as well one memorable Xmas! We trimmed it back to the unburnt bits and it carried on for many years after that. Elfin Safety was unheard of.....

[Tizer]

Joss sticks? Your mum? Now I know what you were growing in your dad's fancy elevated greenhouse on top of the garage!

[Stanley]

I don't know what was in them but on the day when the vase caught fire father was asleep in the armchair in the front room and took a lot of wakening up when we found him in the smoke filled room! With hindsight we were very naive in those days....

[Tizer]

I made beer in a small kitchen in the 1980s, boiling the wort with hops in a big pan on the stove. I walked out into the lounge, slumped on the sofa and promptly fell asleep - proof that hops do contain volatile soporific components!

[Stanley]

I've been badly affected by paint fumes twice, once when using a two part plastic paint in an enclosed space and the other when using large quantities of aluminium paint to coat a large chimney section. Those solvents can creep up on you.

[Stanley]

I've been reminded over the last week or so of the damaging effects of very fine cast iron dust which float about as you are machining the metal. In the days when cast iron was the basic engineering material there must have been a lot more of this about, very similar to the modern problem of particulates from the cleanest burning diesels. One interesting thing I learned when I was working with welders at REW was that vapour from welding metals can have the same effect. Ferrous vapour wasn't too bad because it oxidised on the lining of the lung and could be expelled with mucus but stainless steel particles were a different matter, they don't oxidise and build up in the lungs. Very dangerous stuff producing effects like silicosis in hard rock miners. We boast of clean air these days compared with old days when coal burning fires were the norm but are the modern pollutants even more dangerous because they are invisible?

[Bodger]

beryllium copper used in moulds and dies for heat dissapation was a danger when beig machined, breath protection was required

[Stanley]

I can believe that Bodge. There used to be a condition known as 'brass turner's lung' as well. The dangers from pottery dust and grinding dust were well known as well. My old mate Arthur Entwistle had a bad chest and eventually lung cancer I think from tool room grinding. Asbestos danger well known now but thousands must have died from exposure. My mate Graham Riley got it, for some reason I seem to have escaped it so far......

[Tizer]

Now we've got MDF to worry about too.

[Tripps]

Not a new problem - this is an excerpt from Friedrich Engels 'The condition of the working class in England' of 1845.

By far the most unwholesome work is the grinding of knife blades and forks, which especially when done with a dry stone entails certain early death. The unwholesomeness of this work lies in part in the bent posture, in which the chest and stomach are cramped; but especially in the quantity of sharp edged metal dust particles freed in the cutting, which fill the atmosphere and are necessarily inhaled. The dry grinders' average life is hardly 35 years, the wet grinders' rarely exceeds 45. Dr Knight in Sheffield says.

I can convey some idea of the injuriousness of this occupation only by asserting that the hardest drinkers among them because they are longest and oftenest absent from their work. There are in all, some 2500 grinders in Sheffield. About 150 (80 men and 70 boys) are fork grinders; these die between the 28th and 32nd year of age. The razor grinders who grind wet as well as dry, die between the 40th and 50th year.

The same physician gives following description of the course of the disease called 'grinders asthma'.

"They usually begin their work with the fourteenth year and if they have good constitutions, rarely notice any symptoms before the 20th year. Then the symptoms of their peculiar disease appear. They suffer from shortness of breath at the slightest effort in going up hill or upstairs, they habitually raise the shoulders to relieve the permanent and increasing want of breath; they bend forward and seem in general to be most comfortable in the crouching position in which they work"

Worth reading - and it's free for a kindle.

[Stanley]

Good quote David....
As I understand it the main problem with MDF is formaldehyde in the board released when cutting it. We used to use it by the gallon when we delivered skim milk to pig rearers. We added a gallon to 2000 gallons in the farm tank to stop it curdling in the pipes.... It was said to be harmless but Marshall's at Bradley wouldn't use it, they said it affected the back fat on the pig carcasses.
Marylin's comment about the number of ounces in a pound reminded me of the tables of obscure weights and measures that was on the back of the exercise books we were given at school. all the old measures like bushels, chains, furlongs and the rod pole or perch were there....
I've mentioned this before but the Bible on the old measures is Ronald Zupko's wonderful 'A dictionary of weights and measures in the British Isles'. You can find it on the web and get a copy for less than £30. A wonderful investment! Does anyone remember my search for the elusive Agondal?

[Tizer]

On MDF, the HSE site says:
"The atmosphere created by machining or sanding MDF board contains a mixture of softwood dust and hardwood dust (if it is present). In addition, there will also be free formaldehyde, dust particles onto which formaldehyde is adsorbed and potentially, the resin binder itself and its derivatives. However, the levels of free formaldehyde in boards made within the EU at levels of formaldehyde class E1 are thought to be insignificant. This is because at these levels the resin is fully reacted (polymerised). Under current legislation softwood dust, hardwood dust and formaldehyde are considered to be hazardous to health. Both softwood and hardwood dusts are known to be respiratory sensitisers and may cause asthma and other respiratory problems. Hardwood dust can also cause a rare form of nasal cancer. Formaldehyde is classified in the UK, and in the European Union as a carcinogen and it carries the hazard statement ‘suspected of causing cancer’."

"In Europe, the majority of manufacturers produce only low emission boards. There are some boards available on the market with extremely low formaldehyde emissions and some with ‘no added formaldehyde’, for example those using formaldehyde free binders such as PMDI, i.e. these boards will only have the naturally occurring emissions from the wood itself. Manufacturers from outside Europe may however produce boards that have higher emissions."
More info here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/faq-mdf.htm

The Romans used asbestos and knew that it causes lung disease. It's interesting hos clever some people have been at suppressing this information over the centuries. At least we now have the Internet to give us access to such information.

[Stanley]

The classic book on asbestos is 'Magic Mineral to Killer Dust' by Geoffrey Tweedale. His dad worked for Turner and Newall at Rochdale and the asbestos killed him. Geoffrey emailed the lawyers in the US who had forced T&N to disclose all their archive for a class action under US law and they sent him the lot. Under UK law it was secret but he had all the evidence and wrote his book. Well worth reading for an example of massive neglect and cynicism on the part of T&N.