MEDICAL MATTERS

[Stanley]

I saw the report as well David and from what I gathered the censure was nothing to do with standards of treatment but low staffing in certain areas due no doubt to the fight to make do on decreasing amounts of money per patient. I'm afraid we are going to see a lot more of this, all the reports coming in show that the NHS is gradually sinking under the load....
At the same time we throw enormous sums at the Chinese to avert another cock up and blithely embark on HS2 and updating Trident.... Funny old world....

[Tripps]

"the fight to make do on decreasing amounts of money per patient"

I don't think that's the reason. Hasn't the NHS been 'ring fenced' from cuts in recent years, and in fact received real terms increases in funding? That has been what they are telling us.

I think there needs to be a fresh look at staff training. I'm convinced a university degree is not the best way forward for nurses. The buzz word at the moment is apprenticeships. Perhaps they should go down that route with 'on the job', training. That's what used to happen in the days of SEN's and SRN,s.

When a hospital of this stature is combing the whole world for nurses - something is badly wrong.

[Stanley]

I'm sure that would be an improvement David. As for the funding, yes, theoretically it has been ring-fenced but unfortunately the demands on the system are increasing particularly in the field of providing care for elderly patients who have to be hospitalised because Local Authority funding for social care is being cut so drastically. High time this problem was addressed by integrating social care in the home with the NHS hospitals and funding it properly. All the recent reports agree that this area of health care is regressing.

[Stanley]

I did a silly thing a couple of days ago, I lifted a bag of coal without taking enough care. The effects are wearing off now but it's a reminder that my freedom from back pain these days is largely due to the defences I have built up over the years. Constant vigilance and listening to what my body tells me. Perhaps one of the best defences we have..... I have never forgotten what my mate Susi told me once, "The body never lies!"
I've got used to my new improved vision. I don't wear any glasses if I don't need close vision so TV watching and walking the dog are done au naturel.... Lovely!

[Cathy]

I wouldn't buy that Cast Iron Pot if I were you Stanley, you could incur more aches and pains.

[Stanley]

I can handle that weight easily Cathy but thanks for the thought! (Too late anyway.... I found one with 2/3 knocked off the price and bought it!)

[Wendyf]

Col's battle with his health continues following last year's op to remove the bladder tumour. He finally seems to be clear of infections and has been off the long term low dose of antibiotics for about 3 months with just one small blip, but a new issue has now arisen. Earlier on in the year whilst the doctor was checking his breathing she noticed a strange, quite large, lump on his back. This was very worrying but after scans & x-rays he was assured that it was muscle. Since then he has experienced increasing general muscle weakness and pain in his lower back and legs that doesn't respond to painkillers. He is seeing a physio on a regular basis and does regular exercises to try and improve the situation but nothing seems to be working. Being an active chap Colin is finding it very distressing and frustrating. We thought he was just out of condition after a year off hard physical work but now he cant even do a three mile walk without feeling tired out.
During a couple of wakeful hours on Friday the thought "Statins!" popped into my head and I got up and did a bit of research. Sure enough his symptoms seem very similar to the side effects given for statins. He has been on them for years since he was diagnosed with diabetes, so why would he suddenly start experiencing side effects now? Could be an interaction with the antibiotics he has been taking.
It would be good to think that stopping the statins could cure his symptoms, he is giving it a try. Fingers crossed.

[Tizer]

There's something on the front page of the Express today about statins hindering our body's repair mechanisms.

[Marilyn]

Wendy, I take a low dose Statin, and feel like a bit of a whimp I can't tolerate anything stronger...my gut reacts too strongly to increasing the dose, though I have tried to satisfy the doctor's requests a few times. I also get annoying aches and pains in my legs and hips and shoulders. So much so, that I experimented with giving them away for varying periods of time...and I have to say that the aches and pains totally disappear when I do stop taking them. ( I find as little as 48 hours after stopping them sometimes). What is one to do? The guilt of not taking them at all plays on me, so after a week/fortnight I start them again. Back come the aches and pains...
I've tried taking them every second day...I've tried taking them just twice a week. I am only truly comfortable when I don't take them at all.
Haven't found any lumps though. Poor Colin. He has had a bad run.
( I feel I must add that hubby takes a massive dose of statins each day ( ever since his bypass), although he has never had a cholesterol problem ( his levels have always been sub normal), and it is just part of post cardiac surgery protocol to be prescribed them. He doesn't have any problems tolerating them....never complains of anything!). Makes me feel like a total whimp...I think some folk are more sensitive to them than others.

[plaques]

I also get annoying aches and pains in my legs

I kicked my cholesterol tablets into touch years ago. I gave them a good run but every formulation gave me the same leg problems. A variant tablet based on some kind of slimming pills resulted in chest pains. I'm not what you would call overweight at 171lbs for 6ft tall. So far i'm still here and off for another birthday bash this afternoon. Don't worry about it just listen to your body and you won't go far wrong.

[Wendyf]

Interesting that you both have had problems with muscle pain. Col only had slightly raised cholesterol levels when he was put on statins, and has had good results ever since. Like you Plaques he is tall and slim, probably underweight for his 5' 11'' height at about 10st 10lbs but the diabetes diagnosis meant he was put on statins and blood pressure tablets. According to the info I have been reading people with low body weights are more likely to get muscle problems with statins.

[Tizer]

We're into a weird Catch 22 situation now where statins are known to increase the risk of diabetes yet the medics believe the lowering of heart disease risk that they offer outbalances this diabetes risk. I haven't seen anything explaining what effect statins have on people who already have diabetes. Does it make the diabetes worse perhaps? It's getting to a stage where we'll all have a poor quality of life in our later years due to the side effects of the drugs we take to gain an extra year of that poor quality life. Of course the drugs industry don't mind, they'll make money out of giving you something to cure what their last drug caused!

This NHS web page sets out the cautions about using statins: LINK

[Wendyf]

Not once did any doctor suggest that there might be a problem with Col taking antibiotics and statins together. It really is quite scary!

[LizG]

I was having the same problem with aching legs and my doctor suggested I try CoQ10. It took a few weeks to get the dose right but it works for me.

[Stanley]

Wendy, first thing is please give Col my love, I am so sorry that he is getting even more flak....
The thing that struck me was you mentioning 'protocol'.... When Doc had his stent and angioplasty they did the same thing with him and 18 months later when he collapsed with low blood pressure they realised that he was still on the 'protocol' of drugs to reduce his BP when it was normal. Stopped all the pills and never looked back. Perhaps a good idea to demand a review of his medication....
I can only speak from experience.... When Ian Brown said he wanted me to start on statins I refused on the grounds that my blood analysis and BP were perfect, in fact better than his, so I would take my chances. My own view is that blanket prescription of drugs 'because they could be good for you' is crazy. I took a daily dose of aspirin and Ibuprofen for years and then when I started to get unexplained pains stopped the lot. I am now (touch wood) 95% pain free. Even when I had a mini back storm last week after an awkward lift I didn't take anything. it went away. I still take the 4 X 500mgm Metformin each day for the type 2 but that's all.
As I say, I can only speak personally but if I was Col I would consider this. At his weight and height he is less 'obese' than I am!

[chinatyke]

Interesting that you both have had problems with muscle pain. Col only had slightly raised cholesterol levels when he was put on statins, and has had good results ever since. Like you Plaques he is tall and slim, probably underweight for his 5' 11'' height at about 10st 10lbs but the diabetes diagnosis meant he was put on statins and blood pressure tablets. According to the info I have been reading people with low body weights are more likely to get muscle problems with statins.

Wendy,
I read your post and immediately spotted something: 'he was put on statins and blood pressure tablets'. About 15 years ago whilst I was still working I was prescribed bp tablets. They caused me so much muscle weakness that I stopped taking them. The next time I went to the doctor for a routine check the surgery nurse found my bp was slightly elevated and quizzed me and then immediately sent me to see the doctor. I explained that I had stopped taking the tablets because the medication was causing me problems with my job, there are some pretty high structures in the chemical industry and you don't want your legs to give out half way up a distillation column. This was a direct result of taking the pills, in fact that's what they seem to be designed to do, stop you over exerting. The doctor changed me to a different type of bp medication and I've had no problem since then. The moral of the story is: talk to your doctor, alternatives may be available.
(I now take Enalapril ACE inhibitors, I think the problem drug was amlodipine, a CCB type).
Good luck.

[Stanley]

That makes perfect sense China. Good call I'd say. The body never lies......

[Marilyn]

Haven't taken Statins for two days now (how you lot lead me astray), and WAS ache and pain free until I turned over in bed to say Good Morning to Febby this morning and pulled a neck muscle!
It is all his fault, of course...

[Stanley]

That can happen any time Maz. Beware of incautious activity in bed......

[chinatyke]

The moral of the story is: talk to your doctor, alternatives may be available.
(I now take Enalapril ACE inhibitors, I think the problem drug was amlodipine, a CCB type).
Good luck.

I was thinking about this, and I now think the drug that caused me problems was Atenolol which is a beta blocker and I was changed to Amlodipine. Beta blockers slow the heart and make it beat less powerfully. It was >15 years ago now. The moral of the story is still the same: talk to your doctor.

A new study has shown that BP medication should be taken at night and not in the morning.

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencen ... story.html

[Stanley]

That is an interesting article China....
My first reaction to your post was thank God I don't need any meds for BP, it is fine and so far no problem at all, I am very lucky. It also strengthens my resolve to avoid multiple medication for as long as possible! I have a general problem with the whole slant of modern medicine. As more detailed investigation becomes possible, the medical profession find more problems and more answers based on medication. Fine for them and the drug companies but go back 50 years and it was totally different. Arthur Morrison told me then that he tested everyone who came into his surgery with the old paper strips which detected albumen in your pee. He said that 1 in 4 of people had some level of diabetes even then. The treatments available were diet control (Sugar and carbohydrates raised blood sugar levels, foods containing cholesterol raised your triglyceride level) and if things got bad, Insulin. High BP treatment was savage, Arthur's first port of call was to recommend a dose of whisky which opened the arteries and lowered it temporarily (you could always repeat the dose....). Nowadays there is a whole battery of pills and treatments for both 'conditions'. My question is how many of the people with these hidden conditions had complications or died from them?
Another thought for you, writing at about the same time Ivan Illich wrote a book called 'The Limits of Medicine' in which he stated that over 50% of 'medical conditions' were iatrogenic, caused by the doctors and their treatments. Illich was no duck egg and I wonder what that figure would be today. If the same amount of study and research that goes into other areas was put into a study to establish a figure what would it reveal? Doctors and drug companies have no incentive to research that one! I have no evidence and no answers but it's a thought worth considering.
I wish you well China and hope you get your medication sorted out to your satisfaction. I'm not a dinosaur, I take note and am in favour of the greater part of modern medicine but I have what I think is a healthy amount of scepticism when I am told that a pill 'might' prevent something bad happening.....

[chinatyke]

Thanks. My bp is OK and well under control with the medication I take, 106/72 and 58 bpm heart rate. Not bad for a 69 year old overweight chap. Only yesterday my wife was talking on the phone with me and commented how I was so healthy whilst she was having to attend hospital for various problems. See, I do talk to her now and again! She is 17 years younger than me and I think her problems are just "time of life" ones but she was worried and needed to sort it out and get professional advice and assurance. She has just rung me and told me that the result of all the hospital tests indicate no problems. In China, health care is different to the UK. She goes to her home town 160 miles away where she is registered and gets cheaper hospital treatment rather than having it in Nanning and some assistance towards the cost through some sort of paid-up insurance scheme. It is a national "golden week" holiday and is combining the hospitals visits with a stay at her mum's. Meanwhile I'm going on a fishing trip this weekend.

I get no help with my medical costs and regular bp medicine costs me <£2 a month. As an example of medicine prices, aciclovir cream costs 30pence for 10g compared with £5.59 for 2g (Zovirax) at Boots UK and is just as effective. A full CT body scan costs about £40, no waiting list. Unfortunately poor people still die here because they cannot afford medical treatment and have no insurance cover.

[Bruff]

I have high blood pressure and take amlodipine and candasartan. I was intially on an ACE inhibitor (lisinopril) but it gave me the cough (a common side effect) and the cough was so severe when it hit it I was convulsed and it would wake me up 4/5 times per night. I couldn’t tolerate it.

Amlodipine is known for giving folk leg/limb issues (among other things) and interstingly it is apparently banned in the Netherlands. Thankfully, I have no real issues with the 2 drugs I am on and the BP is controlled.

Richard Broughton

[Stanley]

In the interests of science I have just taken a BP reading, earlier than usual, before my walk and just after the first caffeine hit of the day 135/84 and 71 pulse. The BP is slightly higher than normal after my walk but no problems. I know how lucky I am and wish you both well.
69 China? A spring chicken, I'm heading for 80 in February and touch wood, no serious problems yet! It's a lottery isn't it.... That's why Michael Mosley's recent programmes on development in the womb fascinated me....
Later, just to satisfy myself, I did the readings again after our walk. 129/75 with 77 HR.

[Wendyf]

A week after he stopped taking statins Col is reporting a big improvement. The muscle weakness he was experiencing has just about gone, though sciatic nerve pain down his leg caused by a muscle knot is still there. It's all very promising!