SHED MATTERS 2

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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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Today's jobs are simple. Cut a 1 1/4" slice of this 5" stock (I was mistaken in the size but no matter, it will be big enough.) and finish roughing out the big casting for a chuck back. First job was getting this into the jaws of Mrs McMaster. Old blokes shouldn't be doing things like this, it's heavier than it looks!

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I finished this side of the casting in the four jaw and then swapped chucks for the big 3 jaw SC that came with the lathe. It's not dead accurate but close enough for this.

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Full production, the lathe and the saw both working. I'm keeping the saw cut flooded with oil so that's where most of the smoke is coming from.

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Close of play. The casting is cleaned up and preserved intact. The 5" blank for the flywheel will do nicely. I'm glad I decided to do it this way, it would have been such a waste to cut the casting down.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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Not a lot to report today lads. Life got in the way of the shed! I cleaned the lathe and made two clean parallel faces on the blank for the flywheel.

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I need to oil the big chuck back up and put it back in the treasure chest. I have plenty to be going on with now.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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Lots of tidying up to be done this morning. First there was the aftermath of the naughty chair. (see 'Today I shall be Mainly...) Then there was tidying up after yesterday, lifting the 5" stock out of the saw and putting it on the chip tray of the HM, no easy task as it was awkward lifting and it's very heavy! Cleaning Mrs McMaster and the lathe. Oiling the CI chuck back blank and putting that away safely and a general tidy up.

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The first thing I wanted to do today was clean and square the edges of the elements of the bed. They have been guillotined very accurately but I wanted to make sure the edges were finished. My El Cheapo mill has its faults but it doesn't do badly at all when milling something like this plate, the edge is 6" above the bed and largely unsupported but no problems at all.

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It has enough travel to cut this 11" edge in one pass, again, no vibration even though the ends overhang the vice so much.

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I milled both gussets at once and the vest pocket level made setting up easy.

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The elements sit nicely with each other.

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I slipped up and chipped a corner of one tooth so I cleaned the cutter up on the T&C grinder before putting it on one side. I need to get set up for milling the curved top edge of the target plate.

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Finding the centre of the rotary table.

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Close of play. I have the table and cutter set up, first job tomorrow is to find a centre, drill the target plate 3/8" and set it up for milling....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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The target end measured and marked up.

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Set up for milling a nice curve to the top of the target plate. Quietly away, small cuts! No rush!

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That'll do nicely, now to get the gusset plates into some sort of shape.

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I put a new blade in the saw and indulged in a bit of upper body development! Then milled both plates at once to get a perfectly square face.

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I was considering some fancy curves but then reflected they wouldn't make the gussets any stronger!

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Then I wanted a 7/8" hole in the plate to accommodate the gland on the cylinder lid. Not the best set up in the world but quick and plenty accurate enough.

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I said we wouldn't be taking this lid off again but forgot about using it as a template for marking the target plate for the holding down bolts. It was knocking off time, I need to do some careful thinking now and some even more careful marking and drilling! That'll be a nice start for tomorrow....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by micktoon »

Hi Stanley, looks like more steady progress being made. Nice to see it all coming together, I bet Mrs Mcmaster was well appreciated with that 5" steel bar, there is upper body developement but also a limit to it lol, she did a nice job anyway.
So whats the plan for the welding then ? or are you drilling and tapping with couter sink heads maybe ?.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

Morning Mick. Did you note the big chuck back casting..... I think if it was re-centred it would just about bore for the L5 nose....
Cutting the 5" bar would have been a nasty big angle grinder job... As it was it was just routine once I had the slug lifted in. Took about an hour but no sweat, I was working on the casting at the same time so the hour didn't matter. Lovely comforting sound going on in the background.
Programme now is to get a finish on the bed plates... fly cutter. Drill the target plate using the front lid as a template. Then weld the plates together. I am a crap welder but I can do a good enough job. Luckily, my welding bench outside which is normally loaded with bags of coal is just about empty so I am OK there. Eyes are better now so theoretically my welding ought to be improved! Slide for cross head will be drilled, tapped and bolted to the bed as will all the other seats.
Coming together nicely......
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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As I mentioned earlier, this morning's job is to get some finish on the components of the bed. We're working with boiler quality plate and while it is good stuff it wasn't made to be perfectly flat and uniform. The major width is 4", too big for my usual machine vise even if I take one jaw out. I mulled over this a bit and rejected direct bolting to the bed. I have a big vise that will do the job thanks to Mick so I might as well use it! I had a chip chase, got the usual vise out of the way and popped the big vise on the table. I say popped but it was more of a stagger and a jerk, it must weigh in at about 150lbs.... A bit of a stretch for an old bloke. However, big does and little does I got it on the VM bed and squared it up.

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I adjusted my biggest fly cutter to give a shade over 4" swing, touched the cutter up, popped the target end in the vise and made absolutely sure I had it tight and level.

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One light pass and I have a plane surface except for the edge where the guillotine has distorted the plate a bit but that's no matter, it will vanish when it's in place. The main thing is that I have a plane surface to fit the cylinder to. I noticed a bit of chatter on the cut, not surprising really because I have the head right up on the column and a 4" wide pass is well outside what you'd expect a cheap mill like this to do. One of the things about us miniature engineers is that we are always working outside the ideal capacity of our equipment. Then I remembered that one of the big faults of the mill is that there is no way of oiling the spindle apart from squirting oil in any gap you can find and waiting for it to trickle down. I gave it a good dose in three key places and after a bit of running that cured the chatter!

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I did both sides of the late, just one light pass and you'll see where the cut was a bit light but nothing to worry about.

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Then I addressed the biggy, the 11" long bed plate. I tried it with a straight edge before mounting it and sure enough it was out of truth so I put it flat on the floor and knocked seven bells out of it with a heavy hammer. As you can see after the first pass there is still a slack spot in it.

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A second pass took this out and by the way, I altered the mounting of the plate so I could mill as near as possible the full length. (Two little nibs were left at the end corners but I took them out with a big flat file. I didn't bother with the underside because that doesn't matter. When I fasten it down on the wooden bed I'll make allowances for it.

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The finished result....

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Then I mounted the smaller fly cutter and did both sides of the two gussets.

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I'll admit to ten minutes overtime but at close of play we have a straight edge, all the faces that need it milled square and plane. Not a bad morning's work, especially when you think of how far out of its comfort zone I have pushed my El Cheapo Taiwanese mill!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Bodger »

Gusset, i love it when people talk dirty
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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Do you know Bodge, my mind always works the same way! However, everyone isn't like thee and me. I have seen some sensitive souls tie themselves in knots trying to avoid terms like 'gusset', 'Bastard file' and even male/female fit. I'll stick to my gussets.... (Cotton ones are always best, my mother told me that)

Remember me being so delighted when I was reminded of the use of the vest pocket level when setting stuff up in the vise? It struck me last night how stupid I was because within reach of the VM is this....

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A very accurate Stabila magnetic 10" level. How the hell did I miss that?
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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I didn't pile straight back into the engine this morning because I have been thinking about the big Abwood vise that Mick gave me. So handy to have jaws that open to a reasonable width... The first thing I did was take the two cap screws out of the back jaw and reduce them a bit in the lathe because they were both standing slightly proud of the face. Then I considered taking it off the swivel base, it's far too heavy as it is for me to be lugging about!

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I took it off and checked the base, all it needed was a good wipe off and the normal tee bolts are long enough for it. So, with the base out of the way I popped it on the bed. Still heavy but manageable.

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I made sure it was parallel using the ball bearing trick.

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Set up and ready for work. I shall use it for a while and see how I get on with it. It's big but that's what you need for large jaw openings.

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Back to the job in hand. I took my time and marked the target plate ready for drilling. I'm working back to front and the wrong way round if you see what I mean. I checked and re-checked that I had got the orientation right. One thing I realised was that the valve rod gland interferes with the target plate and so I shall need a cut out.

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Set up ready for drilling after taking a lot of care to get the first hole right using a transfer punch. The Stabila level, being magnetic is just the job. God knows how I missed this before. I checked against the vest pocket level and it's remarkably accurate....

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Once I had the first hole done I bolted the lid on the face, checked the orientation carefully and drilled the opposing hole.

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With two holes bolted down it was easy to drill the other four accurately.

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All the holes broken with the countersink and a 5/8" hole where I think the cut out has to be.

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It was knocking off time but just to reassure myself I set the cylinder up on the bed plate. I've got it right, next job is to finish the cut out and modify the gusset at that side to suit.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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The design committee has been busy overnight. I slipped up there and forgot that this cylinder is not as big in the bore as my usual ones.... This means some careful thought about the design of the fore end of the engine, the flywheel and the shaft.... I'm working on it.... This why they call engines like this scratch built! I shall be scratching my head....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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One last check to make sure I was right and then I milled the aperture out for the valve gland.

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I must have got it right, it fits.....

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While I was milling the aperture I was reminded that the slide on the vise was a bit slack. I couldn't get any more on the 1/4" grub screws so I took them out and put a bottoming tap in, I thought the holes must be short of thread. Very puzzling because the tap came to a dead stop. I did a bit of investigating and found the reason why.... There are two grub screws in each hole, one for setting the gib plate and the other to lock it. Dead easy then, I took the shake out of the slide and locked the adjusting screws down with the secondary ones. I suppose this is common practice and it's a good idea but I have never come across it before. You live and learn!

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Then I measured the gusset for that side and reduced it so it cleared the clevis and pin. Note the size of the chips, big for me and my El Cheapo mill and none of them hot. As I said yesterday, the VM is good but you can't push it. I watch the heroic cuts taken by the lads on Youtube and wish I had a really big miller....

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All edges broken, it's looking OK.

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The next little job was to prepare the edges for welding.

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Then I set the target plate and the bed up clamped to a CI angle plate. Some careful adjusting so everything is in the right place and I'm ready to start welding. I didn't feel like that at the moment and we were getting close to knocking off time so I had a chip chase and vacuumed the carpet. Clean and tidy and ready for a clean start tomorrow....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by micktoon »

Hi Stanley, looks like all is progressing well, its the big day tomorrow then the welding :surprised: , its a pity you were not closer as John has all the welding gear now, still I am sure you will have it polished ok yourself.
I have an interesting project on the big lathe now that John will be doing a video of, My mate got a scrap 9 cylinder Alvis aero engine and is making a wall feature out of it so some bits need machined off for the project. I will take some photos too and post here too.
Best of luck with the welding Stanley.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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Morning Mick. As you can see I am giving myself every chance. I've had some 2.5mm low hydrogen rods baking on the stove all night so they will be dry. I've set up properly and I can see better. So with a bit of care I should be able to do a good job. One thing is certain, the bits will end up stuck together and a coat of paint will make everything look nice! I'll post pics of the truth.....
Glad to hear you are getting on the lathe, post the pics, I want to see it mucky!
I think the Abwood vise will be OK on the VM. One thing I am considering is mounting it crossways so it doesn't foul the pillar and the handle doesn't stick out as far. We get used to mounting crossways but when you think about it this is a hangover from Horizontal millers, the VM cuts just as well back to front and the vise has the same grip if mounted crossways.... When I get round to it I shall make some new jaws for it.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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The first weld wasn't very good but I chose to start with this one as it's the least visible being under the cylinder. I don't do enough welding to get practice in and the mistake I made was to start at 100amps, when I turned the current down to 80amps it was much better. Bit even so, after I had dressed it off with the grinder and checked for squareness with the bed I let it go....

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I got on a lot better then, not bad at all actually.

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Same on the other gusset.

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A bot of careful milling and the distortion was taken out of both of them.

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I went round it with a file and made sure all the edges were clean and broken. Last check for square and it's OK.

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I tidied all the welding tackle away and got the Hammerite out. It looks good, I can live with this.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

I forgot to mention that I tried turning the Abwood vise 90 degrees but it doesn't work because the holes for the tee nuts are too far apart for the VM bed so I had to go back to the ordinary sized vise. Of course I still have the option of the Abwood should I need to grip something too big for the smaller vise.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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I put the bed in the front room, the warmest room in the house, to harden off as soon as it was touch dry and could be handled.
I've realised that I have to write for the paper so if there is no activity today, bear with me.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

I wrote an article yesterday so my conscience is clear.

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The bed has hardened off so the first thing will be some careful measuring up and planning the way forward.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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The paint on the bed has hardened nicely so the first job was to run a big file over the base to make sure it sits flat and true. I was surprised how level it was, the heat has straightened it out a bit as I welded it.

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Then I fitted the cylinder to the target plate putting all the set screws in so I was sure they were all engaging cleanly with the thread in the casting. I had to help some with a re-run of the 2BA tap but in the end got them all in, tight and bedded. It helps if you have a ring spanner the right size. Oh, by the way.... I had to clean the holes up with a rat tail file so I did the right thing and made a small file handle so I didn't end up spiking the palm of my hand on the tang!

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Then a more careful full size drawing than usual done on inch square graph paper. It made it easier to get some accurate measurements down on paper.

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When I had some accurate sizes I dived into the scrap box to see what I had. I can get the crosshead slide and the two bed blocks for the pedestal out of these....

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Mrs McMaster to the fore and I cut the stock off for the crosshead slide.

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That brought it to closing time but I have the next cut marked up. With a bit if jiggery pokery I think I can cut this on the saw as well. The problem with these small pieces is holding them.... But that's for tomorrow!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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After cutting that chunk off last night I had second thoughts and remembered a part of the stock pile I hadn't looked in. I found these pieces which ar going to do nicely with a lot less cutting and reducing. So this morning will be boring, making clean blocks properly squared all round.

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All went well and then I decided my cutter could be improved, it's a while since I backed it off properly...

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It made a difference....

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Close of play this morning, I have two out of the three blocks properly squared and finished.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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The design committee met last night and have taken me to task for making a small mistake. When I fitted the cylinder yesterday and tightened it up I noted that when extended the end of the rod was about 3/16" shy of the centre line. The committee have pointed out that the only face I didn't check for squareness was the back face of the target plate which is of course the base of accuracy in cylinder alignment. They are quite right. I shall finish the other pedestal raising block and then attend to this. I've worked through all the permutations of setting it up and machining it flat and have decided that the old fashioned method of filing some off it is going to be easiest. If you think about it, the bed is a bugger to hold for accurate machining. (But as I typed that another possibility occurred to me.) I shall give it a coat of looking at later..... (The more I think, the more I like the latest solution....)
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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I think you might be able to see what my problem was, but I have a solution!

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This is one of my bleeding obvious moments but some of you may need reminding. Marking the second raising block with the same height as the first is dead simple if you have a surface plate or other flat plane surface. If you can't get anything else, a piece of thick plate glass will do nicely. Well worth getting fit up!

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Some quiet milling with my freshly sharpened cutter and we have a match. Time spent sharpening the tools is always well spent.

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This is my solution to the target plate problem. As long as I have made quite sure my vise is accurately aligned, any cut I make is bound to be square.

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The first cut confirmed I had got it right. This was exactly where I expected the excess to be.

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Some quiet slow cutting and I had got as far as I could with this setup. I had to move the vise and re-align it before I could set up for the cut on the remainder.

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The first cut showed me I was OK so I took two more very fine cuts until I was just marking the part I had already surfaced. I think the plate is square now!

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I had a chip chase, got the paint out and repainted the end of the bed, including the two small bits I had missed first time round! Knocking off time and I am pleased. I'll bet the piston rod is square now! We'll find out tomorrow when I refit the cylinder and have a measure up....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Super_7b »

Hi Stanley,

Just watching the latest YouTube video by "Outside Screwball" and immediately thought of Johnny Pickles's lathes. You might enjoy watching this one:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B32tsRR2-J8

BR

Mick
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

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I think you can see why I swore I wasn't going to get into OT! It makes my head hurt just watching that. Thanks for putting the link up...
After the Lord Mayor's procession here comes the muck cart....

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First thing this morning I checked the face of the target end with the square, its OK. Then I put three holes in the bed for fastening the engine down on its plinth when it's done. I blued the faces up and marked some holes and cut lines.

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I'm going to cut the half inch slot on the HM because it does a neater job. 200rpm on the cutter and 20thou depth of cut means I can put it on auto feed and do some multi-tasking.

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While the HM was running I drilled both raising blocks, transfer punched the hole locations on to the bed, drilled them and tapped the holes 1/4" Whitworth.

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I popped the set screws in and made sure they were all in line. They're OK, one is just a bit tight but finger turned so close enough.

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All the time I was doing the other stuff I was putting fresh cuts on and by closing time I am well on the way to the depth I want. Cutter is only just warm. I know I could take more but I wanted to be sure it was OK to be left to run on its own. No rush, I am satisfied with progress and no cock-up! Tomorrow is another day....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley »

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I got the cut going on the crosshead slide and then started to multi-task. First job was to check whether the re-facing of the target plate had worked. It's OK now, the rod is dead central.

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Same task as yesterday, quietly away on auto-feed, 20thou at a time. I need to get down to 5/8".

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Meanwhile, plotting measuring and getting ready for the next stages. I needed to check and adjust my measurements and decide what to do about the flywheel. At first I favoured turning it down to 4.5" diameter so that it would clear the ground outside the bed but ditched that in favour of leaving it at it's full diameter of just under 5" and mounting the engine on a shallow wooden plinth. Another decision was on the crankshaft. I could get 2.25" stroke out of the cylinder but that would mean that this piece of 3" stock would be slightly too small so I have decided to call it 2" stroke, that'll just come out of this piece with a bit of care.

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I have the gearbox in the HM slightly overfull so when the box warms up this seal leaks. No problem. Notice it is nice clean oil.....

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I have my 5/8" depth, in fact just over. I gave myself an extra pass, wasn't going to get idle! Now I have to cut the slot and of course this means a full cut favouring one side so quietly away with plenty of oil. From experience I know that this is OK if you go quietly but the thing to watch out for is when the cutter is exiting at the other end. It tends to grab. What I do is stop before that and turn the spindle with a spanner until I have got it clear. A tip for you, no bad thing if your drive belt is a touch slack, it will slip before it breaks an expensive cutter!

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Close of play but I'll admit to doing 30 minutes overtime. The back cut to get the depth on the other side of the slide is easy because you have the luxury of being able to do it in light cuts. Remember not to slip up and start climb milling. That would smash the cutter immediately!
A good morning, doesn't look much but a lot done. Decisions made and we are ready to go forward!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
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