FORGOTTEN CORNERS

[Stanley]

By names could be cruel Bodge. Billy Brooks told me about a tackler who took a short cut over the fields to Long Ing Shed around 1900. He fell through the rotten boards above a cesspit and ever after that he got 'Shitten Swimmer'.
We don't have by names like we used to. 'Hot Breath' and 'Pigeon Milk' spring to mind. In itself a forgotten corner. Arthur Entwistle told me his dad was responsible for 'Pigeon Milk' as the lad worked for him and he sent him to the shop for some one day.

[Stanley]

There was a weaving manager at Moss Shed who was always known as 'Cabbage'. It stemmed from when he was a lad. His mother sent him to the corner shop one day for a cabbage and when he asked how big she said get one as big as your head! He told his mates at school about this and went through his life burdened by that by-name. Ernie told the story about him going to the management one day and asking for a pay rise. He was given a derisory sum and told never to ask again or he would be sacked instantly. He ended up as weaving manager and wove the last warp out when they closed down. Ernie said he did it with tears in his eyes despite being so badly treated..... Things were different then, it's a forgotten corner.

[Stanley]

It struck me the other day that one element that is missing from our streets now are the itinerant hawkers and food sellers. If you read the |LTP you'll find that greengrocers, fishmongers and other food trades regularly patrolled our streets, often shouting out their wares. I suppose the nearest equivalent today are the home delivered groceries, they do their shouting on the internet. Add the milk retailers and you have a lot of street traders. I suppose one factor is higher standards of food regulation.....

[Whyperion]

itinerant hawkers and food sellers
loosely it is because of assorted changes to legislation, "localisation", and competition from supermarkets. Foodstuffs were one item that were exempted from a need for Peddlers Licence, probably because of the perishability of food and most people would buy from someone they new. The Hawkers licence was essentially a tax on the cart/cartage going from place to place and was probably accidentally repealed when the old A, B and C motor truck licences were repealed and everything replaced with an operators licence. One could see how villages and towns developed. From the fixed (often regulated to the town councils profit), markets, the cost of setting up, taking down and moving on became too much of a pain for some folk, so acquire a house, maybe with a bit of frontage, and build a temp structure to keep the wind and rain off, and lo, fixed shops. Now this leads to a abrasion, as the council cannot charge for tollage on sales , or stall rent as they are not in the market area, so we end up with business rates, which are fixed irrespective of sales volumes, so the shopkeepers then moan about the markets, and informal street trading becomes hampered by Highways Acts (no obstruction of a highway without lawful excuse - ie some sanctioned licence - and the cost of licences again has a fixed element which is high and irrespective of the value of the products proffered for sale ). Itinerant traders not taking up fixed highway space are theoretically exempt from this licence as they move on after a sale has been concluded, and roundsmen are definitely excluded if calling on effectively pre-booked customers whom have already ordered - although loading restrictions can be a problem. Most greengrocers had a lad on a bike, or van with scales on at the rear and these have been encouraged recently in some rural areas. Some local vendors have arrangements with the larger retirement homes blocks, eg Fish man calls on a Friday to the lounge, Stationery and greeting cards/books on a Monday , Hairdresser on Tuesday Fruit and Veg Weds. On Thursday a minibus turns up to run folk into a larger town for few hours. The local churches too probably take it in turns to do a Sunday , or weekday afternoon service or song and talk time.

Actually to get a food hygine certificate is fairly easy and straighforward. Generally demonstrate that stuff is prepared/stored at correct temperatures, handled without the potential of contamination, and stored securely from the bugs and the vermin. Of course every product standard, fitness for purpose etc that a fixed shop or stall trader has to comply with apply to an itinerate traders inventory.

[Stanley]

I know that in purely economic terms the closures of branch railway lines made sense but if you look at wider societal considerations we lost out. I still regret the fact that we lost this.....

[Stanley]

Two forgotten corners for the price of one..... The railway and Wakes Week. I remember hearing a story about a group of civil servants who were sent North to find out the full extent of the slump in the textile industry. They arrived in Blackburn and found the town deserted. It wasn't until it was explained to them that they had arrived during Wakes Week that they realised that things weren't quite as bad as their initial impression. Truly, North of Watford is terra incognito to some in the South!

[deebee]

Truly, North of Watford is terra incognito to some in the South![/quote]

Michael Heseltine's City Challenge set deprived local authorities against each other to "win" additional funding (which had been top sliced off their budgets anyway). Only 15 authorities would be given the cash. Blackburn was one of the 15, Burnley wasn't. Shortly after the winners had been announced a black limousine arrived outside Burnley Town Hall, with a Minister expecting red carpet treatment, which to his amazement he didn't get. They should, of course, have gone to Blackburn...

db

[Stanley]

I have long been convinced that in certain mind-sets in the Great Wen, everything North of Watford is best handled by regarding it as a colony. Think of the term 'Home Counties' and you get the idea. High time this attitude became a Forgotten Corner!!

[Tizer]

I guess it all started with that bottom right-hand corner, the south-east, being the closest bit of our island to the continent and Normandy. The Romans and the Normans both worked their way outwards from that corner, so that was the most civilised bit according to their standards. The Thames was the major river in that corner for fostering trade and migration, London was the lowest down-river crossing point, the climate was a bit milder and the geology provided abundant water. Once the moneymakers set up in London there was no stopping them. Personally I don't mind what they think about the Celtic Fringe as long as they stay in the Home Counties!

[Stanley]

I tend to agree Tiz. Britannia Civitas in the South and Military administration in the north. Not a lot has changed.....

[Tizer]

...except that it's no longer William Ist doing the harrowing but his descendants.

[Stanley]

What a lovely analogy! Like all good ones, it is dead true! The later 'harrowings' were done not to subjugate but to exploit the resources of the North, minerals and labour. Once the juice had been sucked out the industries could be abandoned, that's why we have the old spoil heaps and subsidence!
Barlick was lucky, the textile industry wasn't too damaging for the landscape and an unhappy accident in the form of Herr Hitler gave us new industries when the Shadow Factories were located here for relative safety. This is largely a forgotten corner now, that the resurgence of the town was not due to planning and government action to relieve the situation, it was pure chance. Does that ring a bell today?

[Tripps]

Speaking of 'harrows' try this Pagett MP

[Stanley]

I tried that link David.... Never seen that poem before, thanks. But it is pure Kipling!
The Forgotten Corner that came to mind this morning is the fact that Saturday used to be the favoured day for the funerals of working folk. That way they avoided losing a day's pay! Today they can be on any weekday......

[Tizer]

When my mum and dad died each of them had one of those insurance policies `to bury me when the time comes'. I think they were with the Red Rose society in Blackburn. It was interesting to see how little the policies paid out compared with the cost of a funeral now. It would hardly cover the crematorium's fee let alone all the other costs, and that fee has gone up dramatically in the last few years. The crematorium operators (some are councils, some private) say it's due to new pollution controls which have meant fitting expensive equipment to remove pollutants from the gases. Apparently mercury dental fillings are a big concern. I read an article by a woman in Britain who wanted the simplest and cheapest funeral for her relative because that's what the relative had asked for. She simply collected the body in the back of a van and took it to be buried in the field of a farmer who was offering plots. But it wasn't easy, there were many bureaucratic and regulatory obstacles to be overcome and fees to pay. If you try to `leave your body to medicine' that's not easy either. You would have to die near to a medical school otherwise they're not interested, and there isn't much demand anyway. And you'll probably find they cherry pick and leave you still with bits to cremate or bury. And if you get stopped by the police for a routine check when you're on your way to bury those bits, or you're that lady with her relative in the back of the van, just imagine the trouble and the newspaper headlines!

[Stanley]

There used to be a common joke in Barlick if someone looked poorly. You cheered them up with black humour by advising the partner to put another tanner on the policy. Burial fund collectors used to be common, they called once a week and marked your book. A shilling a week was an expensive policy......

[Stanley]

Wellhouse Mill in about 1900. I reckon this pic must have been done from somewhere on the rising ground up to Bank Street. Everything is gone now, it's amazing how our townscape has changed.

[Stanley]

Click to enlarge. Wellhouse and surrounding area in 1963.

[David Whipp]

Towards the top right the 'detached' hen pens of Coates Poultry Farm can be seen off Richmond Road and near Fernbank.

The Richmond Road pens had our longest hen hut, which was I think 60' long. Robinson Court now stands in this area. At Fernbank there was a building with a curved asbestos roof which had housed pigs. It was used to store Provim for the poultry. This is the small white building to the left and a field away from Fernbank Mill.

As with the rest of the land used for the poultry farm, these pens were rented. The owner offered to sell them to dad at a reasonable price. Taking legal advice, dad's solicitor agreed it was a good price, but pointed out that Parker Street and Hardy Avenue were unmade streets and the cost of streetworks would be expensive if the council made them up. Dad didn't buy and the land was eventually bought by BUDC with the intention of using it for housing. The council gave dad notice to quit and there was a forced sale of all the huts etc.

In spite of the urgency to get rid of the hen pens, the land lay idle for decades apart from Robinson Court which was built after a few years. Pendle Council sold most of the rest off to the developer of Priory Way.

The front streets of Parker Street and Hardy Avenue still haven't been made up...

[Stanley]

Isn't it fascinating what can be made of a close study of old photographs. Have a go at this one. Click to enlarge I have made sure it is a good size. A slightly different view of the town in 1963.

[David Whipp]

Plenty of pews to park your bottom - the chapels are still standing; Station Road, St Andrews, North Street, Bethesda but I think St James has gone by then?

Another massive change is that there are very few cars parked on the streets.

Park Street and the top section of Mosley Street have yet to be 'made up' but it looks like most other streets have had roadworks carried out.

There are four mill chimneys in the picture and Clough Mill is still standing.

Can't tell clearly, but it looks like clearance has already taken place on Westgate. The 1960s development of Monkroyd etc is still to take place.

Oh, and there are quite a few allotments and hen pens.

[Stanley]

The Westgate clearances were done before I bought the Hey in 1959 and the views are 1963. Here's the third of them to study. Again, click to enlarge.

[Big Kev]

I am loving the 1960's aerial pics, can I come and get some hi-res copies from you so I can print them up? They'll be a great talking point on my dining room wall.

[David Whipp]

Please can I join the queue for hi-res copies?!

More hen pens and allotments... On what is now part of Valley Gardens, I was fascinated by a friend's dad's firewood production hut where there was a splitter that made kindling.

It'll be a few years before Valley Road is driven through to a junction with Rainhall Road/Long Ing and the row of houses at Raikes Beck are still standing.

Stuart Street, Craven Street, Ethel Street and Havre Park are yet to be made up. I guess the white appearance of most of the pavements on the roads that have been adopted shows that they've recently been paved with concrete flags.

On Bank Street, it looks like the ambulance station is being used for its intended purpose. It would survive for a few decades as a council depot.

Nearby, the Women's Royal British Legion Building stands at the junction of Hill Street with Bank Street, with the joiner's shop behind.

Above the railway sidings at the right of the picture, Gisburn Road Primary School looks much as it is today - apart from the outside toilet block...

[Tizer]

When I was a child our council house backed onto a large hen pen and that backed onto allotments. A row of timber garages ran down a cinder track on one side of the hen pen, raised on bricks and with rabbits living underneath. There was a pig sty in the hen pen and rickety garage for the owner's old car. The fencing was partly chicken wire and partly any old timber he could find. He also tried growing vegetables in a fenced off section but the hens and rabbits always managed to get in and wreck them. It was a bit like the Aardman Animations film, Chicken Run!