STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Stanley, was there a choice for coal in the old days ?, ie was there a prefered source between Lancs & Yorks or did they import "quality coal". see the links.
http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/communicate ... 44&offset=&
http://www.coalmerchantsfederation.co.u ... -dry-steam
http://www.coalmerchantsfederation.co.u ... -dry-steam
http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/communicate ... 44&offset=&
http://www.coalmerchantsfederation.co.u ... -dry-steam
http://www.coalmerchantsfederation.co.u ... -dry-steam
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Bodge, the overall quality of washed singles, which was what almost every Lancashire boiler burned, was good. However all engineers had their own favourite coal and had tuned his stokers to deal with it. The main factor as far as I was concerned was ash content, I could deal with volatiles. 'Dry Steam Coal' was a hard coal, low on volatiles and ash and very close to anthracite. Easier to burn with minimum smoke and so favoured for locos and ships. We had choice and the best coal for us at Bancroft on price and quality was Brodsworth in Yorkshire but we also burned good open cast. The best coal I ever had was a chance load of Sutton Manor from Lancashire, burned like candle ends but it cost more. Only time we had no choice was if there was a strike, then we had to burn what we were sent and there were some poor samples.

Once the boss was in we built the support for the entablature beam, lifted the beam into place and started on the flywheel build. Cecil Hufton cleaned all the parts and the two apprentices laboured for me. Beautifully made and marked, it went together well, the only thing you had to be careful of was retraining the wheel as it was out of balance. The sequence was fit spokes, fit rim segments and then add the gear segments. All we had to do was make two opposing cotters for one of the joints. When finished it ran true, all down to the quality of the original manufacture in 1842.
Once the boss was in we built the support for the entablature beam, lifted the beam into place and started on the flywheel build. Cecil Hufton cleaned all the parts and the two apprentices laboured for me. Beautifully made and marked, it went together well, the only thing you had to be careful of was retraining the wheel as it was out of balance. The sequence was fit spokes, fit rim segments and then add the gear segments. All we had to do was make two opposing cotters for one of the joints. When finished it ran true, all down to the quality of the original manufacture in 1842.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
I know my limitations! I got my old mate Newton in to advise me on the vale gear before we lifted it into place. The best advice was to make a long stick with a nail driven into the end of it! I used it to feel where the valves were and measure the events. I made new studs for fixing it on and solved the problem of replacing the old iron filings and linseed oil cement that sealed the ports. The answer was ceramic fibre mixed with Manganesite. It seemed to work..... Despite all the criticisms of my rebuild nobody has mentioned any leakage yet!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
This was a dodgy moment, lifting the valve chest into place. I was glad when we had it bolted on! The cylinder was a bit of a puzzle and eventually I realised that the original fitters in 1842 had made a mistake and got the centre of the stroke wrong. This gave me a lot of unwanted problems....
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Big sighs of relief when the valve chest was in place and everything nipped up. More to it than meets the eye of course. I replaced most of the old Whitworth studs and made them slightly oversize so they were a good fit in the cylinder casting, it was quite surprising how loose the originals were. of course I had to make new square nuts as well, easier than modifying the old ones. Then there was the experimental packing made of ceramic fibre and Manganesaite and the new specially made proofed asbestos gaskets. I often wonder if anyone ever thinks about what was involved....
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
The Lady Mayor christening the engine, on time and it ran well.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
SG starting the engine at the christening ceremony in May 1992. We had hit the deadline and had an engine that ran. Never any problems with the pit but of course many people believe I built it wrongly! Ah well.... it ran for twenty years!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
This is what it was all about. My Carleton College students watching the engine running in 1998.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Peter Bradley engine at Cross Lane Mill Connonley. Now being re-erected at Bancroft museum.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Edna Lumb painting of the rope race at Ellenroad.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Edna Lumb's painting of the inside of the rope race at Ellenroad.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Yates and Thom twin tandem
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- PanBiker
- Site Administrator
- Posts: 17583
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
- Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
I think I caught a glimpse of the Bancroft engine the other night during Robson Green's new series "How the North was Made". The program covered work in the northern coalfields and what the coal was used for in the early part of the 19C. It covered the role that weaving played in the fortunes of the country and touched on transport systems of the time. Turnpikes and canals giving way to the railway which will be featured in next weeks program.
Ian
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
I saw Ellenroad, he was turning the stop valve head I made for the engine. Didn't notice Bancroft but identifies the condenser mules at Helmshore when they were doing carding. Nice to see the shots of Ellenroad running at the proper speed, the only big engine that does. They think they're safer running at half speed but don't realise the harm they are doing. I had a hell of a fight with English Heritage on this matter and won, that's why all the engines I did run at their original speed.

SG and Graham Riley at Ellenroad in 1989. The governor is running at its original speed of 55rpm.
SG and Graham Riley at Ellenroad in 1989. The governor is running at its original speed of 55rpm.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Musgrave engine similar to the one installed at Butts Mill.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Chatterley Whitfield winding engine in 1986.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Perseverance at Padiham I think. Walter Fawcett left hand side, Harold Armfield middle, Arthur Johnson right hand side. Pic sent to me by Gillian Rosthorn, Accrington.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Jubilee engine at Padiham in the original house.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Jubilee engine at Padiham at the time the mill was demolished. Robert Aram bought the engine and eventually removed it and reinstalled it at Masson Mill, Matlock Bath, Derbyshire
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
The low pressure cylinder coming out of the house at Jubilee in 2000.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
The Jubilee LP cylinder inching its way into Masson engine house. The same procedure had to be done with all the large parts. A big job done carefully by Gissing and Lonsdale, not a single instance of damage.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
The Jubilee LP cylinder finally at rest in the Masson engine house. Terry Gissing is scratching his head, he must be thinking!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
During 2004 the engine build at Masson went on slowly but surely. Bigger job than it looks!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
- Stanley
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 99393
- Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
- Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.
Re: STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS
Getting there! Ready for the final stages. Nobody will ever know how much work went into it......
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Old age isn't for cissies!