THE UPS AND DOWNS OF MODERN SOCIETY

[Thomo]

In the years since I was born, 1940, the speed of change to our lives has increased at a greater rate than ever before, and is continuing to do so. Most of the changes, but not all, have been to our benefit. A change for the better benefits most of us, whereas a change for the worse only benefits a few. Bad things are difficult to overcome, and good things can become, and often are corrupted or misused. As this is a very diverse topic, I will look at the content in sections, ie, technology and its effect on the way we live our lives, the effect it has on the way we bring up our children, the workplace, leisure and travel etc. Has mankind begun a race to its own destruction, has the greed of the few put us all at risk?, not just from a financial point of view, but a physical one as well. Had the technology that I use and enjoy now been available when I was younger, it would have been a bonus, but I probably not have done other things that besides giving me great pleasure, have been a part of my education and the way I look at life. It has often been said that science fiction is a window on the future, I recall the prospect and then realisation of space travel, I also recall the "Daleks", the residual remnants of beings, the brain, in a transport device! I already know a few who are well on the way to that scenario, thats not a life, it is an existance!! That often used feature of the household, the kitchen, now requires my attention, tomorrows roast beef, and then it will be cat feeding and welfare time followed by preparation for tonights Lasagne, home made!

[Thomo]

Part 1. Where did it all begin? It took billions of years to produce what we inhabit today, unless you believe in the God of your choice, I prefer the scientific approach. This was a progression that we now understand to a degree, and what is often referred to as "Nature". If we skip the earlier bits and move on to a time just a few hundred years ago, we have a situation where not much would change for some time. The place we call Earth had become less physically violent, and we, Mankind were established as a dominant feature, gone were the terrible great beasts and Earth was becoming a friendlier place. Mankind had developed and a part of this process was the ability to think, and overcome problems, to design and create artifacts that would improve their situation. There was Man and Woman, akin yet separated by physical differences. For many years this would develop with the Man providing, and the Woman ensuring the future of the species and supporting the care of the result. Despite many attempts to wipe each other out, Mankind endured and proliferated. Now jump forwards to 2013, we have left the dark or middle ages behind, yet what has been gained, and what is the cost. Nature has taken a back seat, it is not quick enough for our needs, we must improve on the fundementals of existance. This is dangerous and should not be taken lightly, yet there are still those who due to their extremist versions of their faith, would drag us all back hundreds of years, so who is right? If it is they, they would remove all of the gains made in such areas as "Womens Rights" something that I support with very few exceptions, I am not happy about them being in the "Firing Line". Man and Woman were developed to be together, and as such to ensure the future, this has always worked fairly well, but in our time this is changing. The various religeous and political bodies whilst fighting to be at the top of the same sex marriages issue cannot accept that Women would make good Bishops etc, Women are and always have been at the forefront when it comes families, I beleive that, that is a fair qualification. There is nothing like a good old fashioned "Rant" is there, back to the kitchen.

[Bodger]

Yes the world went pear shaped when women ceased to be mothers, my wife & I are married for 50 years, and my wife was always too busy to work, with 4 daughters, and all that is entailed in raising a family a wife / mother has no time to do more work .

[Marilyn]

Bodger, I agree that the world went pear shaped when "women ceased to be mothers", though I know for a fact that working women try very hard to keep feet in both camps and raise successful children.

In my own situation, I did not choose to be a working mother. My plight came about in the delivery room when my son was less than five minutes old and my (then) husband declared loudly that he had no intention of supporting either myself or our child, so I had better think on! The nurses turned to look at me with stunned looks. ( as I recall, the exact words my husband said were that he had no intention of letting us become "parasites" to him.)
All I am saying, is that there are many reasons women have to work....and we are not all out there by choice.

[Thomo]

2 good posts there, thank you. Marilyn, I can understand the reaction of the nurses, there is a time and place for all manner of things, that was neither, and it sounds like you are well rid of what was not really a man at all. I have a couple of stories about childlbirth, when I was still a senior apprentice in my teens, I was sent to Brierfield to "paper" a room at the home of a Jewish couple, and totally unprepared for what was going to happen next. So there I am papering the ceiling whilst below the Lady is giving birth on the settee, midwife and Rabbi in attendance, negative husband, all part of lifes rich tapestry. Several years later and now married, my first child was due on the 1st of April 1967, I was given work near home so that I could be with her when the time came, the days went by without result, caster oil in orange juice was suggested and I drank a full pint in an attempt to convince wifey that it wasn't that bad, she drank, nothing happened. On the 26th of April I took her out in my old van and drove along the lane that connects Bank Newton with East Marton, better suited to tracked vehicles, it did the trick and on the 27th my Son was born. I was working away that day so missed the birth. Later I collected my Mother in Law and we went to Cawder Gill at Skipton to see them, after seeing the wife, we were taken to see our Son, stood in front of the glass wall separating the new arrivals from the public, the nurse asked "what name" Mother in Law replied "Thompson", a baby was then displayed and Mother in Law retorted sharply "thats not ours" sorry said the nurse I thought you said Tomlinson, another baby was produced and we both breathed a sigh of relief. It was often said that new babies looked like Winston Churchill, the first one we were shown didn't but it would be unkind to say any more! Paul, bless him had just done us out of a years tax rebate. Child number two, my Daughter in 1970 arrived in even more dramatic fashion, she was two months premature. We were then living on Red Lion St in Earby, it was late Saturday afternoon and the wife had gone off to her little nieces birthday party, I was having a soak in the bath, the bathroom door burst open and there was my Sister in Law who was a nursing Sister at LGI, Jens waters had broken and Yvonne had brought her home. Nothing else happened that weekend and on Monday I went off to work doing a job at Hansons small holding near Ghyll Church, 10.30 am and I am just having a brew, I heard the phone ring and Mrs Hanson came in said "you had better get home fast" this I did, collected Jen and took her to Cawder Gill, straight to the delivery room. I was told to go and get ready, this meant going past several pregnant women in a waiting room, "there goes another one who cant stand the sight of birth" was what I heard. nothing was said when I returned soon after, all scrubbed up and in surgical cap and gown. Samantha was born soon after with very little fuss, but she was a strange colour, blueish and it was clear that the staff were anxious. She was taken straight away to the Royal at Bradford where she spent the next three days in an incubator. Other than being asthmatic she is fine and is currently at the age of 43 Married and expecting her third child, also preparing to move out of Bristol to a new home in Somerset. Samantha has an MSC and has worked for many years as ecological advisor and fund raiser for the Avon Wildlife Trust, she also teaches at Bristol Zoo. How to support a working Mum? in a marriage or partnership I would prefer to see the mum looking after the offsprings, and Husband/Partner doing all else whilst still working full time, it always worked for us, and also works for my Daughter, add to this appropriate child care from a third party, and the mum wishes or feels the need to work, then why not?

[Thomo]

When it comes down to having children, we have an odd situation in the family at present. 1. My Daughter at the age of 43 is expecting her third child and was 27 when the first was born, she had had a full life until then, attending Bristol and then Bath universities. None of this was handed on a plate and at Bristol she had an early morning job at a bakery, and an evening job at the Old Vic theatre, where she eventually became manager, part of this, her further education was working in Borneo, Africa and Spain on research projects, monitoring wildlife. 2. a generation behind her is my step Grandaughter, she has studied hard for her future, and in October last year we had the good news that she had been offered a job in administration at Skipton Library, two weeks later we had different news, she was pregnant. She has just turned 18, and in this day and age this is preventable, all of us including her boyfriend and his parents are doing our best to make everything work, but I feel that there are troubles ahead, my gut feeling is not good, neither she nor her boyfriend have had a proper amount of time to be prepared for what lies ahead, and already welfare will have to be involved. Animal welfare time now, food!

[Bodger]

In my own situation, I did not choose to be a working mother.

Marilyn, sorry i was too quick in my reply, i was born pre WW2, so there were a lot of single mothers after the war for no reason of their own.
Today, i see lots of single parents relying on the social system for a living, ie , sponging off society, i know there are genuine cases but a large percentage are parents because of drink / drug fueled relationships, in my day if you were in that situation it generally meant a "shotgun" affair and you faced up to your responsibilities, but today most people "pass the buck" and let other people supply the fiscal needs.
bodger

[Thomo]

Well put Bodger. I have a great Niece who had twins 10 years ago, thanks to IVF, their biological Father being the donor, the Boy looks like his Dad and the Girl looks like her Mother. This from a modern tech point of view is a success, yet is another of the good things that can be misused. If unrestricted, any single Female could have a child by the father of her choice, and there would no doubt be many willing donors from the wide spectrum of celebs. Imagine a whole generation of Beckhams, good at playing with their balls but with a severe comunication defect! We already know that the unplanned result of a lack of foresight on the part of my step grandaughter and her boyfriend will be a Boy, whereas my Daughter is quite happy not knowing what the result will be.

[Marilyn]

There is no doubt that society is changing, and indeed the structure of the traditional family unit is changing. ( and to my mind it doesn't really matter if it is mum and dad, dad and dad, or mum and mum who nurture the children. I know of a lot of 'traditional' mum and dad families who have done a terrible job of raising their offspring. I also see a lot of traits in modern families that annoy me - such as lack of boundaries - and lack of discipline, and most of it stems from lazy parenting and an inability to say NO.)
On the flip side, I have seen some fantastic single parents getting it so right, and doing a great job of it.

I find, with our 'boys' ( Febby has sons in their mid to late 30s, and my son is 34), that they are not yet marriage material. I don't know if and when it will ever happen, as none of them want to get married...and neither do the women they date. It is as if, in the span of one generation, everything has changed. ( and we seem to hear a lot about women in their early to mid forties now deciding to become mums and needing medical help to do so.)
Our sons don't date women with kids, because they don't want kids of their own or to have to consider their girlfriend's children. They simply aren't "father" material.

This seems to be a trend with most people we know who have children of the same age as ours.
I just don't get it really. We all know the stereo-typical families depicted in the 1960s were a farce, and that there were a lot of very unhappy wives out there, but for an entire generation to move away from the trend of marriage is something to get us all thinking.

[Whyperion]

Son and prospective Daughter-In-Law are currently busy arranging marriage (date has already moved around the chosen year for various reasons), location of the after service party has been largest problem in fitting in wanted guests , needed family , and reasonable quality and price of venue. Getting a place to live though is more difficulty as it has to fit around their work-places and preferably nearish some of her family, and be affordable (difficult, but not wholly impossible for South West London) . Although places to live in bits of Yorkshire are more affordable , the salary drop and distance away from rest of family makes more of a difficult choice. Her family has got some spare funds accessible to fund a reasonable deposit , but I am worried If some property prices do fall by about a fifth , which I think is a possibility, although as she has a relatively large family younger sisters might take on their first property at some later date- Indeed one consideration is to look for a first-time flat or a more longer term larger house - they have just done their second move from a room in shared house to a house-share with two others ( All normal for London ). Its quite difficult since the cost of property will take most of their earnings , leaving little spare for much else, so their 20th birthdays this year are I think going to be quite frugal , but both are quite independent by choice and do have a rough plan for the next 5 to 7 years which seems do-able for themselves.

[Marilyn]

I do not envy their situation one little bit!

[Thomo]

Before moving on to Part 2. of this topic, I will say what I feel about Part 1. There is much pressure on modern Mums, and indeed the rest of us, to accept area's of change that are advancing beyond what would have been natural, were modern society not have been so impatient. It has been suggested that "breast feeding" is not good, so how the hell did life move forwards before an alternative was introduced. This alternative probably has less to do with child welfare, than making money for the producers. I also strongly believe that the best qualified person to care for a child is its birth Mother, or a Woman who would make a good Mother but may be barren. This does not include a pair of Men or Women who due to their sexual persuasions have decided to co-habit. In regard to the latter I also believe that as a civil partnership is already attainable, they should be satisfied with that and leave a Church marriage out of it. Maybe I am old fashioned, but some things are not good for the future of existance. "Gay" is a term that used to mean "happy" and is now applied to they who for whatever reason chose to be different from what was regarded as natural. This began long before the term Gay was used, but due to modern media it has become "fashionable". These people have a right to be happy, but this planet has more pressing needs and any further diversions are simply muddying the waters. Part 2. will be about modern technology and its effect on our lives, some good, some not so good.

[Marilyn]

Part 1 over with already?!

[Thomo]

Not over with Marilyn as part 2. deals with modern technology and its impact on life, including part 1.

[Thomo]

The reason for launching this topic was by way of a little light relief from my ongoing research for the planned book about Barlicks part in conflict, and whilst this work is far from being boring or tedious, it is a tad repetitive. This week however several other items have cropped up that are demanding immediate time, The War Memorial Project and Animal Welfare being just two. But today I have the time to take this a bit further:-

Part 2. Modern Technology; Computers.

The earliest computers were little more than "number crunchers" and first appeared fairly early in the 20th Century, these machines owed more to mechanical engineering than electronics. One that I know a little about was the "Dreyer Firing Table" this device was trialed aboard my Fathers Ship, HMS Thunderer in WW1, when fed with the bearing of a target relative to the Ship, and the distance to the target, it could work out the the information required to be fed to the guns, elevation etc, far quicker and more accurately than men with pencil and paper, this increased the gunnery accuracy by a considerable amount. Much modern technology has its origins in warfare and in WW2, the worlds first electronic computer was built at Bletchley Park. this machine "Colossus" was a code breaker, and could work out probabilities far quicker than its designers or indeed anyone else. These early machines had an advantage over what we have today, they were only vulnerable to an actual physical attack, sabotage or an explosive device, they were safe from attack by another computer. The advent of the modern computer and its common link to the World Wide Web has removed this protection to a degree, and this is now a major problem worldwide, defence, banking, industry, and government being constant targets. The modern computer can do all manner of things faster and with greater accuracy than mankind, they can out think us, how long before they can out smart us. Modern day reliance on these artificial brains is in part removing basic logic on the part of human beings, why should we think hard when we have something to do it for us, the trouble is that when one of these wonderful devices fails or is disconnected from its power source at what point does everything go belly up? During the "Cold War" there was plan in place for neutralising Great Britain without "Flattening" it, as this would have left it inhabitable for many years and precluded any form of ground assault, the plan was to detonate a number of smaller nuclear devices in an "air Burst" manner over the North Sea. With the country's computer controlled defence system then inoperable, a ground or conventional attack would have followed soon after, brawn could have overcome brains! In the right hands the modern computer is a wonderful tool and is of great benefit to most of us, but like most good things there are always they would will misuse them. There have been many "spin offs" from this kind of technology, the mobile phone, satnav, entertainment and gaming etc, and the next input here will be about the mobile phone.

[Thomo]

In little over my time we have graduated from gas lighting and messy coal fires, ash pits and crackly radio's, to electricity, central heating, recycling and television, and the telephone, this is one item that has now moved on.

Modern Technology; The Mobile Phone.

When this first appeared, it was more often in the domain of the Military or the Emergency Services, and then it became commercially available. Starting off like a house brick with an aerial it has progressed to a stage where the latest version bought yesterday is out of date today. It was at first a useful device in its original form as a mobile telephone, handy if you were stuck up a mountain, or broken down at the roadside, letting the loves ones know that you would be late home, the list is long. Its function in these respects is mainly history, it is now a "must have accessory". You can take pictures, movies, text, tweet, twitter, do facebook, play games, watch movies, listen to music, converse with the PC at home, gamble, organise all aspects of your social and home life, control your central heating, feed the pets, this list is endless and has replaced a great deal of human contact. To me a phone is just that, a phone,end of. We are all used to seeing people walking around with one hand permanently attached to on side of their heads, or driving whilst doing the same, These devices it would appear cannot and must not be left alone, they have to be checked every 15 seconds. Shopping cannot be done without constant contact with base (home or recipients) I often wonder how many man hours are lost in the workplace due to the constant need to be in contact. Much of their use is for Fun Fun Fun, but there is a down side, a big one. With these useful modern pieces of kit, you could blow up an airliner or anything or anyone else, start a riot or fight a war, and what started out as an inocent "Slip of the tongue" goes global in seconds, even more so if there is a possibility of financial gain. There was a new one advertised this week, a mere snip at over £14,000. WOW!

[Marilyn]

I am not a big mobile phone user ( simply carry one in case of emergency) and we do not have a home phone.
Nor am I into electric "kitchen gadgets"...a wooden spoon, a shap knife and a whisk do for just about everything at our gaff.

But I just LOVE technology in just about every other area. Love the cameras, video cameras, smart TVs, 3D TVs, IPads etc. love the Internet and all it has brought to my life ( still get a huge buzz out of the google street view and being able to 'walk' down streets I may never physically see). I feel so blessed to have lived in these times. Like many people my age, my introduction to anything like a computer originated from buying my son an Atari when he was about 11. Then I bought him a Commodore computer...a primitive device now, but one I was not going to miss out on learning to use. This Mum was not going to be left on the welcome mat at the front door of the computer age! So glad I kept up with technology. Wouldn't be without all these mod cons, and looking forward to more!

[Thomo]

I agree with Marilyn about kitchens and computers, if you have the basics in the kitchen, you will not starve, providing of course that you know how to use them, I know several who lack even the fundamental skills. I was well into my 60s before I became the owner of a PC, and a two day course at Craven College soon had me on track, 3 upgrades on and I can leave the younger members of the family in my wake when it comes to making a PC do valuable work, they are wonderful tools if you let them know who is the boss! "Gadgets" come under two main headings: Extremely useful, almost essential, and Gimmicky non essential, but "cool" no more than toys really. I have no time or need for the latter, in short I can get done anything I wish to do without them. I have certain skills that still work when the power goes of off and the gadgets become inoperable. Learning these basic skills is now often by passed in the rush to save time. Kitchen-wise, every now and then something that is truly useful becomes available, last year we bought a pack of oven bottom liners, thin black washable sheets of PTFE, when you have a "hot spill" you just let them cool, take them out and shake over the waste bin, wash if needs be and replace, bottom of oven, pristine, that's useful. I have never owned a dish washer, ten minutes and its job done. These "time saving" machines are never energy efficient and never will be. Time is often the common denominator, and a useful tool when marketing gadgets, if something saves you half a day, fine. If its 10 minutes or less, is it really worth it? I get the impression that today every second or sub division saved is essential, and there are they who will ignore common sense or even the law to save one of these, As for being "cool" in respect to modern technology, I am happy with what I have:- A life spent mostly in most forms of interesting engineering, blacksmith to aerospace, and a knowledge of the world gained from visiting a great deal of it, and not as a tourist. No, I don't do cool.

[hartley353]

Just received a call from my 91 year old mum in Colne,seems she answered a call at the front door,to be met by a supposedly tree surgeon. He had noticed a tree in the rear garden which was becoming to large and would she like it cutting. Mum reckons he had awoken her from a siesta, and in her dozy state she accepted his offer. Twenty minutes later a knock at the door job done £200 pounds please. Only good thing to come out of this is my niece in Glusburn has logs for her Wood Burner. This man should not cross my path any time soon my blood is boiling.

[Marilyn]

Oh that is dreadful.
Hope they get caught and run out of town!
Old people are so vulnerable, aren't they? I worry about all the old dears around here who trundle off to the shops with their walkers, legs barely able to hold them upright, and likely to be blown over in a strong wind...purses sat in full view in their little basket. Think I will be getting myself a money belt in later life and not answering the door at all.

[hartley353]

Oh that is dreadful.
Hope they get caught and run out of town!
Old people are so vulnerable, aren't they? I worry about all the old dears around here who trundle off to the shops with their walkers, legs barely able to hold them upright, and likely to be blown over in a strong wind...purses sat in full view in their little basket. Think I will be getting myself a money belt in later life and not answering the door at all.

They have been reported to local trading standards, they offered a business card, but no one has answered the phone when we rang the number. This is happening more, I am told they have made tv programs about it...Mike.

[Whyperion]

Just received a call from my 91 year old mum in Colne,seems she answered a call at the front door,to be met by a supposedly tree surgeon. He had noticed a tree in the rear garden which was becoming to large and would she like it cutting. Mum reckons he had awoken her from a siesta, and in her dozy state she accepted his offer. Twenty minutes later a knock at the door job done £200 pounds please. Only good thing to come out of this is my niece in Glusburn has logs for her Wood Burner. This man should not cross my path any time soon my blood is boiling.

.

Easily missed , but anyone carrying out services by 'cold calling' for immediate work should have a Police Issued to individuals (valid for one year) Pedlar's Certificate showing name and a residential address . ( Arguably under EU services directive the current format and pre-requisits of the Acts need modifying - present Department for Business, Innovation and Skills is to desiring to abandon this nationally recognised , vetted to bone-fide , document). There are criminal law penalties for not having such certificate or having a forged one but its not often enforced by the Constabulary.

Of course even if they do have such a certificate this does not set any level of capacity to enter into a contract or set the price. Consumer Protection laws indicate in the absence of a pre-agreed price , such price should be reasonable for the work carried out, and under contract (civil) law the agreement both parties would have to have 'capacity' for the contract to be enforced ( effectively one person having issues in understanding what is being offered could render the contract void - but its expensive to confirm this in law ).

Tree Work may also require tree preservation certificates depending on the size , age and location of the tree.

Without knowing the scope of work , £200 does not sound unreasonable to my London quoting for business work in the past , but you might need to watch as some 'traders' if they find what they see as an 'easy-touch' will return doing ( or more often doing badly ) 'work' that may or may not be needed , for every increasing cash demands. The Pedlars' Acts requirements are a simple , enforceable first line to check if this happens as it requires no trading standards investigations , just a straightforward local copper.

[hartley353]

No £200 pounds does not seem much when compared to the price of a barrister to defend you from swapping speeding points. But the person pupporting to be a tree surgeon, butchered the tree. My mums confidence to be a self supporting person has taken a knock,this is my main concern. I can't speak for the police force in colne, but in Manchester you would have no chance of a timely intervention by an officer.

[Thomo]

One of the biggest "Downs" of modern society, is the reaction to circumstances that would have been "coped" with 50 or more years ago, snow for instance: a foot of the stuff then was equivalent to an inch today, and grit then was a rarity. Modern vehicle tyres are not designed to give speed and grip on snow or ice, not in this country anyway. Add to this the apparent need to get from A to B in the shortest possible time, impatience, poor driving skills and a touch of rank stupidity, its small wonder that everything grinds to a halt. And when it is not snow, there are the "Floods". For anyone who is affected by floods, it is not at all even remotely funny, just pure misery, we have a family member up here this week, a farmer from Cornwall, his crops are devastated and there is little he can do about it. Floods get a lot of publicity, quickly followed by the call to build defences, these can be both expensive and unsightly, and most will have a short lifespan. In this household it has become a regular feature when flooding and defences are mentioned in the news, for me to shout at the TV "Dredge the bloody Rivers, clean the streams and becks"! Get rid of the cause, remove the redundant obstacles to the progress of the water, this would also provide employment for they who are not technically equipped for other work. This approach may not sit well with conservationists, but most of the wildlife in our rivers lives at the edge, not in the middle bottom. I was relieved last week when on "Countryfile" a Somerset farmer said exactly the same thing. Its no use walling the water in, make it easier for the water to leave!! Anyone who has studied physics may have heard of "Mass flow through pipes", the principles are much the same, if you need to get a large volume of liquid fro A to B, it is better to make the pipe bigger than push the liquid harder.

[hartley353]

The rivers ,streams, becks. of this country do a wonderful job without any assistance as they have ever done, what they can't cope with is the ever increasing load put on them. When you cover the ground with concrete and tarmac,then you have locked your sponge in a plastic bag,it will absorb nothing. Farmers will moan, but they forget, about the banked hedges they tore down,and the containment of water that they used to do.,The drainage ditches that surrounded every field have gone to give way for prairie farming,even the use of heavier farm machinery that has compacted the ground below any ploughing depth. flooding was once a bonus to agriculture Egypt would have starved without the nile delta, and its rich alluvial deposits that would feed the ground ready for the next crop. Even the humble tree wiped from the face of our country in its millions over the last 5 decades played its part, a mature tree could drink up to 100 gallons a day. We have reached a point on the planet were we are not only biting the hand that feeds us we are tearing at it ravenously, this does not bode well for future generations, if there is to be any.