STEAM ENGINES AND WATERWHEELS

[Spinningweb]

A new photograph I have of a Lancashire boiler possibly 30ft in length being transported by Pickford's haulage. no date unfortunately. The business is believed to have been founded in the 17th century, making it one of the UK's oldest functioning companies.

[Stanley]

Good pic John and new to me. There's a very good history of Pickford's and as you say, a very old company.
From the wagons I'd say the date is late 1930s or early 40s. The boiler would weigh about 25 tons.

[Whyperion]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3apcSyFUeOs

Thought on why 'Horsepower'

[Stanley]

I think that was fairly well known.....

[Spinningweb]

This 50-page folio with 98 photographs is the work of Stanley Graham, he was assigned by Littlewoods Home Shopping Group to do a record of the demolition of the Dee Mill engine house, and the vandalised Scott Hodgson engine, my copy was donated to me by The Very Group whose companies were Shop Direct and Littlewoods Home Shopping Group.

Copies of this were deposited with English Heritage, Department of National Heritage, Oldham Metropolitan Borough Council, and the former Littlewoods Home Shopping Group.

My Littlewoods copy will eventually be deposited with Manchester University.

It’s good to cross paths with Stanley as I have done with his friend Tom Phillips.

[Stanley]

Thanks for looking after that John. A blast from the past. That was the final report on the actual demolition that was required as part of the Scheduled Monument Consent to Demolish. There is a copy of that application where you got this from John which makes interesting reading. That was the biggest job and why Littlewood's set me on, to make a case with English Heritage for demolition of what had become an embarrassment to everyone.
I've just remembered, there is also a measured drawing of the house and beds that I got Peter Dawson to do for them, that was another condition of the Consent.

[Stanley]

Thanks for looking after that John. A blast from the past. That was the final report on the actual demolition that was required as part of the Scheduled Monument Consent to Demolish. There is a copy of that application where you got this from John which makes interesting reading. That was the biggest job and why Littlewood's set me on, to make a case with English Heritage for demolition of what had become an embarrassment to everyone.
I've just remembered, there is also a measured drawing of the house and beds that I got Peter Dawson to do for them, that was another condition of the Consent.



This is how I found it when I first went to it, beyond any hope of saving. Designating it a Scheduled Monument but then not supervising its care was useless and that was the basis of the application to demolish. The equivalent on heritage terms to demolishing Stonehenge.

[Spinningweb]

The company donated everything Stanley, but the binder included the background notes, and recommendations, and the introduction to the report. You did a great job with the presentation by the way.

The Very Group also donated several photo framed pictures from the 1960's when the company traded as the international Import and Export Co Ltd,

Top left downwards are the Hartford Mill, Werneth, Ryecroft Mill, Ashton-under-Lyne, and Ivy Mill, Failsworth, Oldham.

Top right is the Lily Mills part of the Littlewoods main warehouses, and once the largest warehouse complex in the world. bottom left is a hardboard photograph circled where the Dee Mill engine house roughly stood, and right is a photograph of the Shaw site.

[Stanley]

The Chairman of Littlewoods liked the application. He invited me to Liverpool for lunch and said it was the best report he had ever seen. He asked me how he could get reports like that written, I said hire me to teach them. It never happened.....

[Spinningweb]

In 1997 after the Dee Mill engine house was long gone, work had started on the site of the former scheduled monument erecting a large warehouse as a sorting centre for Littlewoods.

This large binder shows from the very start of construction on what would be one of the largest warehouse complex's in the world, and now will be all demolished 25 years approx later.

[Stanley]

That project was the reason they hired me to legally get rid of the Dee Mill engine and house. It's status as a Scheduled Monument owned by a third party, the Robinson Brothers, blocked any rational development of the site.

[Spinningweb]

You might know Stanley if at the time of demolition the River Beal flowed near the Dee Mill engine room as I think it was diverted around the Littlewoods Site prior to the large sorting being built.

[Stanley]

I never saw any evidence of it or the lodges John, they had been backfilled with rubble when the mill was demolished, all that was there was the engine house and chimney and Mervyn dropped that earlier. The cellar of the engine house was full of septic water, I don't think the backfilling and culverting of the river was done very well.



Dee Mill chimney felling summer 1986.

[Spinningweb]

Stanley. Did you have a stand-by camera when recording the demolition of the Dee Mill engine and house ? as in those times you'll have used a film camera, and was there a set plan as to how many images would be taken for the report.

[Stanley]

Good question. No, there was no plan for the number of images but I ran two cameras, one for Littlewoods and one for me. Littlewoods knew this it was no problem to them as long as they got their negs. They were very good to work for. They left me alone and didn't nag over the delays that inevitably arise when you are dealing with London, the local councils and sometimes nosey members of the public.



I did all my images with the date code on both mine and Littlewoods, something I don't normally do.

[Spinningweb]

My Littlewoods copies have no dateline on the images.

I can see Stanley why you advised Littlewoods to use the picture on page 17 as part of the presentation images as its very dramatic looking at the building buckling inwards because as your report stated at the time as you said the building might appear strong, but against the modern hydraulic machinery it was no contest.

I always found The Very Group (Littlewoods & Shop Direct) very helpful too with my project, as the artefacts were donated by one of the company directors.

[Stanley]

I could be wrong about that John, its 25 years ago....



I did two extra copies and Dave and Littlewoods paid for them, one for me and one for him. I think there were about a dozen distributed all told.
[You're right, no date on this one. Definitely Nikon F.]

[Stanley]

Bumped just to remind you.....

[plaques]

This photo was sent to me by a pal in Hawaii who had just been given to him by one of his buddies.
A H E Boucher (New York). Within the Boucher web site was this link to other 'Toy' engines eg: Stuart..
I thought it may be of interest to some of our members.

.

20221212_100418.jpg

[Stanley]

I'd like to object strongly to the use of the description 'toy' to these engines. Miniature or small yes but they are not toys, they are exactly the same construction and principle of full size industrial engines.

[plaques]

I'd like to object strongly to the use of the description 'toy' to these engines. Miniature or small yes but they are not toys, they are exactly the same construction and principle of full size industrial engines.

Don't shoot the messenger. These links are from the American H E Boucher site. I have no idea what is inside their machines it could be moulded plastic for all I know.
From Wikipedia. Playing with toys is an important part of aging. Younger children use toys to discover their identity, help with cognition, learn cause and effect, explore relationships, become stronger physically, and practice skills needed in adulthood. Adults on occasion use toys to form and strengthen social bonds, teach, help in therapy, and to remember and reinforce lessons from their youth.

The last bit may be where a 'Toy' boy fits in.

[Stanley]

I wasn't getting at you Ken, just the people who describe what I do in the shed as 'playing with toys'.
The Boucher engines look as though they are the real deal.
The request for information about Stuart engines is what I call lazy person's research. There is plenty of information about Stuart engines on the web. A good start would be Stuart's web site....

[Spinningweb]

Anybody who hasn't seen the small mill steam engines in their glass displays at Oswaldtwistle Mills will appreciate their workmanship and fine detail.

[Michael Chappell]

I would like to ask for more information on Hilda & Elsie Pickering , who worked at Bancroft Mill , would be cool to know if they were related to my great grandma.

[plaques]

I would like to ask for more information on Hilda & Elsie Pickering , who worked at Bancroft Mill , would be cool to know if they were related to my great grandma.

I'm sure there was a Hilda & Elsie Pickering who worked at RR Barlick. as materials handling clerks. Both very nice people and always ready to help.